In a post, Joel Spolsky mentioned that 5 digit Stack Overflow reputation can help you to earn a job paying $100k+. How much of that is real?
Would anyone like to share their success in getting a high paid job by virtue of their reputations on Stack Exchange sites?
I read somewhere that, a person got an interview offer from Google because a recruiter found his Stack Overflow reputation to be impressive. Anyone else with similar stories?
the real answer: spend a few months earning a five digit Stack Overflow reputation, and you'll be getting job offers in the $100K+ range without an interview.
There is no reason why a high reputation (or "score") on any site will get you a job at all. I have pointed this out before, you are more likely to get a job by maintaining open source projects, writing proficiently, leaving good impressions, and making personal connections within the community.
Are these people good programers? Undoubtedly yes! Does that mean they are a good fit for your team? Absolutely not. Calling these people "superstars" may be completely correct, but that doesn't make them perfect. 1
What determines if you are a good fit? Interviews and connections. You can't replace meeting people face to face with a number.
Having a high reputation can't hurt, but it isn't a magic bullet.
1: In no way do I mean to imply these people are bad programmers, I mean to emphasize the inability to instantly and wholly judge someone based on a number.
Come on, seriously: look at the first page or two of Stack Overflow users. Pick anyone at random. Look at three or four of the highly voted answers they wrote. If you've ever hired a programmer in your life, it's obvious those people are all some of the best programmers you could ever hire.
Then keep going deeper and deeper. Scroll to page 5. Edit the URL and go right to page 100 where they have reputations in the 3000 range. Look at everyone. With the very rare exception of someone who got a lot of points for a silly answer, these are all obvious superstar programmers... the kind that most teams would kill for.
Will this actually get them jobs? Ultimately, we're betting it will. You'll have to find a company where there are actual technical people making hiring decisions, not resume-reading-monkey-recruiters. And you may have to find a city to live in where there are a lot of good programming jobs: if you really, really don't want to leave Roswell, New Mexico, you'll be limited to a vanishingly small number of telecommuting jobs. But if you're in the top, say, 5000 Stack Overflow users, and you can work in Silicon Valley, New York, Seattle, Boston, Austin, Research Triangle, London, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Sydney, Beijing, or Tel Aviv, I would be extremely surprised if you aren't in high demand and earning in the top 10 percentile.
It's not a case of direct causation. That is, having a high reputation does not lead to a high-paying job. Being intelligent, articulate, passionate and knowledgable lead to a high-paying job. It's just that those qualities also lead to a (generally) higher reputation on Stack Overflow as well. So you shouldn't be aiming for a high reputation score. You should be aiming to be intelligent, articulate, passionate and knowledgeable.
A higher reputation will just be a bonus.
Edit: I just found the post where Joel says that. He's saying he would hire someone with a 5 digit reputation on Stack Overflow, not that you'd be able to get any $100k+ job with a 5 digit reputation. Also, he's not saying that he wouldn't look at the actual content of your profile, so if you've just posted hundreds of junk questions in the hopes of artificially raising your score, it's not going to help you. Basically, he's using your reputation score as an indication of those qualities I mentioned above.
Someone should do a study of whether having high rep on SO begets higher rep on SO. That is, once someone reaches critical mass of, say, over 20K rep, do their answers tend to attract more upvotes than other equally valid answers? Anecdotally speaking, I have noticed that low-ranked members will garner 1 or 2 points for answers that will garner higher-rep people (often answering later) 5 or 10 points. And I'm talking about answers that are qualitatively no different. Success begets success.
I have a 5 digit SO reputation, and my salary is barely half of what you mention.
Obviously a good SO reputation doesn't guarantee anything, but even though most recruiters don't even know what SO is, surely it's worth mentioning it in one's CV. It's substantial, after all, unlike all kinds of official-looking certifications from two-day courses etc.
On the other hand: while Joel has a point, your activity on Q/A sites isn't really supposed to define your salary in any way. It may be a proof of some proficiency and enthusiasm, but the recruiting company is interested in what you're going to do for them if they recruit you, not in your abilities to answer programming questions. So by all means, consider SO reputation as a part of your professional credibility, but don't expect it to be something huge.
There are a couple of factors:
As a broad rule, businesses are looking for the latter, not the former.
This is both very sad (I mean sad for us pontificators) and very true.
An interesting point: think of your actual BOSS, the person who has to handle all your problems all day, make you feel at least OK about yourself, balance everyone's renumeration, try to keep enough money coming in to your department so that all of you can feed your children while you fondle memory algorithms, deal with the chumps upstairs in management so you don't have to, and so on. Would you really give a flying crap if that poor person has any connection, whatsoever, to some chat website? Of course the answer is no, you just want your boss to be good at to pulling off all that juggling.
(OK, for all this bitterness and sadness, there is the exception of the extremely small number of purely extremely technical, really research, type ways to make money - in those cases sure, the only thing that matters is your various research breakthroughs, perhaps as a humorous side issue your amazing score on grouptheoryoverflow, and so on. But there are so few such jobs it's probably not really in the spirit of the question "getting a job in the real world." And - bitterly - they don't pay that much.)
It's hard to keep up with current salaries everywhere; it could be that "$100,000 !" fits in to the "rare purely proufoundly technical" job I mention in the aside just above.
However, the spirit of the question in some sense seems to be - to paraphrase and simplify - do top jobs have anything much to do with specifically purely technical, mathematical, expertise?
Sadly the answer there is pretty much definitively no.
It's more the "smooching, glad-handling, compromising, deal-maker type" - or, if you prefer to be bitter in another direction - the "big picture, ideas driven and generating and follow-through type" - that can - simply - generate enough money that some business can afford to give the person that much money.
Don't forget - to say you want to "earn" some fabulous salary, what you're essentially saying is you can generate jobs. How so? If you're making 200k somewhere, you're a horse that is carrying a number (10? 25?) normal "do a job" employees on your back. You have to be a producer.
It is, sadly, difficult to see how some essentially test of excellence of technical knowledge (SO chat web site) can help with that.
Steve Jobs said it all - good engineers (he said) are not merely worth 10 or 20 ordinary engineers, they are worth some 100s of ordinary engineers ... they can generate that much product, stuff, free monthly cashflow, for the company. I think that's more what Jobs would think of as one of his superstars. It's difficult to see how purely the technical aspect (a necessity) can bring that.
If that's the sense of the question in terms of "big jobs," then that's probably the answer.
I personally turned a sizable Stack Overflow rep and a higher (relative to the site) Hacker News reputation into a job, though I do not make $100K/year (which as a number matters more depending on the location of the job). SO and HN gave me a 'body of work' that showed off that I was passionate about my work, able to relate to others, demonstrate some level of technical competence, understand people's problems and clearly communicate solutions. And since the job is as a Developer Evangelist, these are all highly-desirable skills for that position.
I tweeted the other day that the perfect resume would be your Stack Overflow profile and your GitHub profile plus some other social interaction history like Hacker News or Twitter.
P.S. If this sounds like you, we're hiring.
Having something to point at is certainly a good way to demonstrate a general competency in an area - that it is something you actually know about (and can articulate helpfully), rather than just some blank labels copied onto your CV - "XML, Ajax, JSON" isn't nearly as convincing as something someone can look at. It also opens up various potential discussion topics, etc., so having a findable (typically via google against your name) public persona is certainly never a bad thing. Unless the only thing on your public persona is garbage...
Speaking more personally, my presence on Stack Overflow very certainly helped me get my current job - I now work for... Stack Overflow! However, I have been approached a number of times by people seeing my posts; in relation to employment, consultancy, and tech-article opportunities. I was also contacted by a Google recruiter who (when introducing themselves) directly cited my Stack Overflow posts (by this time I was already working for Stack Overflow, so I thanked them for their consideration, but I didn't choose to interview).
Of course, getting a public persona out there can also be done in a range of other ways; blogging, hobby-projects, public-speaking (user-groups), etc. So how about another reason to use Stack Overflow:
...either by spending a minute-or-two researching an answer, or just by reading the other replies to an interesting post. The questions can be equally interesting, especially when introducing unexpected behaviour*. And learning is never a bad thing.
Then consider this. We have unicorns! That should be enough for anyone.
*=for example, just this morning I found out that Visual Studio with the debugging host-process enabled processes attributes on the entry-point (AKA Main()) differently to the core CLR execution.
I hate to break it to you but...
High SO rep != great programmer
Actually, many of them are. However, there are some users that are on the site so much, answering so many questions but their average score per answer is very low yet that still have a 5 digit rep due to their high activity.
If there's enough data there, an interviewer could possibly read answers to gleen insights into their approaches to solving problems but to go on straight score would make a company look downright silly.
Consider what it takes to get a good Stack Overflow rating...
Now take the last point there, people who have very high reputations here take a great deal of time to answer the questions of the masses. Now whilst hugely thankful for such benevolent people, this implies one of the following.
All but number three are reasons for a prospective employer not to take you on, and the third makes you wonder if they are ideal for spending all day with.
Anyhow, my boss is watching my screen a bit so I had better stop this post, before I have to use my Stack Overflow reputation to get me a new job...
My current job pays me about $54k a year for 25h a week, most of which I work from home. Plus working as a game developer was kind of a childhood dream, that has now come true (although I sometimes think of moving on to something more "meaningful"). So I suppose my job is arguably equivalent to or even better than the average $100k+ jobs you get as a developer.
On my application I added a section "participation in online communities", wherein I listed SO (and a few smaller german forums). I don't have a superbly high score, but among ActionScript 3 developers I am very well placed.
The references I had were not really outstanding. Mostly the stupid kind of stuff you do as a Flash Developer to get money for sites you'd never visit yourself. But upon arrival to the interview I immediatly sensed, that I had a very high standing from the start. I have personally accounted this to my SO activity.
Getting a high rep on SO means, that you are eager to exchange thoughts, that you are knowledgeable enough to solve the problems your peers pose you (real problems from they actually encounter in every day life), and that you are able to communicate your ideas. These are key abilities for good developers. Thus one can say, people who have a high rep on SO have those abilities. The reputation is given to you by independent developers, not by some comittees or someone vaguely in touch with the subject. I think a high rep on SO is a much better measure than good grades (which appearently are still consider a criterium by some employers).
That being said, I'd never hire someone just because they have a high SO rep. But let's say a person with a high rep will have a head start while trying to convince me they're good. Appearently my current employer reasons similarly.
I’ve got (for want of a better term) job “invitations” via email which explicitly mention my Stack Overflow profile, from companies that boast a 12/12 score on the Joel Test and which honestly seem like extremely cool work environments.
And I know that the same has happened to several other people.
I don’t believe for a second that I (or any of the other people) would score a job without an interview. Like most others here, I think that Stack Overflow may help you to get exposure on the web. But that’s all. It merely gets your name out. It shows that you’re active and motivated but not whether you’re qualified.
If you're looking for a good paying job, my recommendations are as follows:
Don't be lazy. Just because someone will Google your name up and find out you answered a million questions on stackexchange.com that it makes you any way qualified for more money. Any code monkey can use Google to answer a question. Problem solving, strong technical knowledge, good personal skills, etc. make the world of difference when it comes to money.
I'm not perfect. Just perfect enough to know I'm good, but I'm not sure how good.
If you spend time getting 5-digit reputation on Stack Overflow then you probably know what you're doing. That, more than any numerical value, is what get you the jobs.
Beyond landing a job, Stack Overflow can be of great benefit for independent developers and consultants. By demonstrating knowledge in a specific area, along with the ability to communicate what you know, you can become very attractive to someone looking for a consultant in that area.
I've been contacted on several occasions by individuals and companies who were looking to hire me as a contractor, based solely on an answer or two that I had left on Stack Overflow. I don't have the time to consult, so I can't say what those opportunities would have been worth. A couple of them sounded interesting, though.
However, I've received a greater number of these requests from the non-Stack-Overflow content that I've put out there like my course, the open source projects I've worked on, and the guides that I've published on my blog. All of this public information can help to identify you as an expert in an area. Think of how many people use the phrase "he wrote the book on that" when speaking about an authority on a subject.
Overall, I look at Stack Overflow as a way of keeping my skills sharp, while at the same time giving back for all of the help I've received from others over the years. I take time that I would have wasted on blogs, etc. and channel it here. If it benefits my career, that's a great side effect.
Maybe Joel's implicitly offering a job to anyone with a 5-digit reputation? On a more serious note, some employers do follow sites like this, and also open source projects and mailing lists. I was contacted by a firm about a job opportunity a few years ago based on a recommendation from someone I worked on an open source project with. Having a reputation for being knowledgeable and helpful surely has to count for something.
It may be of benefit as a decider I'd say. Like MS certifications
It'd never be the sole reason to employ someone.
It might be a reason to not employ someone if they spend many hours a day here...
Yes. Maybe less so now, but more so in the future. I'm gainfully employed, but I have had 4 google interviews, and all the front line HR people asked me questions that they could only have learned if they googled me and my contributions in other sites (perhaps the thing that hurts stackexchange is the alias - rather than a direct name response). It's only a matter of time before they make the leap to asking for aliases on sites like stack exchange.
I've gotten job offers before solely based on participation in online forums. The way I see it, it doesn't automatically get you hired, but it can be a way to get noticed.
However, I've been at my first and only job for exactly 6 years today, and am not planning to jump ship. Therefore, I don't participate in online forums to pad my resume. I do it to help people and to check whether I really am as clever as I think I am ;)
I don't think participation in stackoverflow is a particularly efficient way to get an "in" with prospective employers. I can think of lots of better ways to make myself more "marketable", if I wanted to do that. If marketability is your motivation to be here, you might as well not bother.
Yeah... I really do. Having almost a five figure SO-rating, in my geographical area, nobody really cares and finding a new job is quite a daunting task still.
It all boils down to your contact network and experience.
The head of computer science at my university insisted that my high grades would open doors. That only seemed to be the case at the university itself. In fact, some employers I interviewed with considered my grades to be somewhat low, because my school had lower 'grade targets' than the university local to that company.
Stack Overflow reputation demonstrably helps your chances in getting a career with Stack Overflow. Beyond that, it really depends on the company.
A nice opportunity, your skills and (hopefully) a good recruiter will get you the job. Reputation in SO (or others) is as likely to help you as to fire back at you. There's many ego wars going on in here...
When I start my own company in the next 1-2 years, high reputation score in stackoverflow will be the 1st criteria for me to hire developers. I hope when that time comes, stackoverflow still serving the humanity.
Common sense, team play and people skills are as much important as technical skills. It's better to have a decent score overall.
Dealing with 'Hi Tech' bosses with low score in other skills is a nightmare.
A high SO score can get your foot in the door at plenty of jobs. But it's always the interview that makes or breaks you. If you're bad at interviewing (like me), then a high SO score will get you the interview but not the job.
If I was to hire, I would rather see how the person performs in the interview.
Probably not. Look at it from a different perspective:
Some day they may be able to make the connection between SO scores and their job & CV posting site.
Maybe another question would be, would you consider SO scores for hiring?
This reminds me of Drake's equation in astronomy. It is an equation that is suppose to give a statistical hint of the number of civilizations in the universe. It is a waste of time actually because it assumes that involved parameters are independent while they are clearly not.
I have four children and a good job. Maybe that is the key to the good job?
Speaking as someone who spends way to much time at SO:
If I'm looking to hire someone, their reputation on SO is not going to be a consideration. At all. Their rep on SO is going to tell me nothing about their work habits or their suitability to the job. For that, I'm going to look at their documented work experience and any products they have for review (web sites, open source projects, etc.) as well as their performance in an interview or series of interviews.
SO is a great resource, but not for screening potential hires.
A good SO flow is just one of the signals that will get you noticed (amongst others such as a high gpa, open-source contributions, certifications, etc). Most probably it will just get you the interview. After that, its all upto your performance during the 5-6 hour onsite interview and coding solutions on the whiteboard to complex algorithm problems (atleast at the top tech companies). While SO does discuss algorithms and data structures, there is no guarantee that every SO user with a 5 digit score knows or would do well in a high-pressure whiteboard coding interview.
IMHO: Depends on what Q&A's you contributed on SO to earn a 5-digit rep. If the Q&A's that earned you a 5-digit rep are related to a jobs requirements which is in high demand, then most likely it will help you get the $100K+ job, but its just one of many factors (technical know-how and problem-solving) but what about the rest of the ingridients that go into being hired?
High reputation on SO might get you into the hiring process, might even give you small bonus, but that's it. In my experience, actually gives you less, than let's say participation in groups on LinkedIn (note, that there is no reputation system there).
The problem with SO rep is, that it does not necessarily reflect much. There are few types of very high scoring answers, that have nothing to do with actual skills:
Thus just the number without actually looking at the answers is meaningless.
John skeet got a job in Google as well, he has a good score on Stack Overflow.
