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For an audio project, I need a low noise +/- 12V supply.

I have a linear power supply of +/- 15V and I decided to use the LM317 and LM337 to decrease the voltage to 12V.

The circuit that I use is the following, I followed the recomendation on the datasheet of both components. I use tantallum capacitors. Circuit - regulators

When I power up the setup, I get the expected voltages on both outputs (+ and - 12V) although I get something strange.

Scope outputs The positive input is very noisy, but the LM317 circuits knocks down the noisy properly (B and D captions) The negative input is less noisy, but the LM337 doesn't seems to regulate the voltage as well as the LM317, as if something was resonating. At the moment I have a load > 10mA on the positive and the negative line.

What could be the issue?

toolic
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Kostr
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    Set your probe to x10 and turn on the 10 MHz bandwidth limit. Make sure you're using a spring clip probe as well or you'll probably pick up at least some external noise. – user1850479 Aug 19 '23 at 19:26
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    A C11 equivalent on the negative rail should reduce the noise inherent to the 337 reference and loop amplifier by a factor of 10 (the attenuation of the voltage setting divider). Whether that is contributing all of your observed noise is another matter, but you'll find out when you add it. – Neil_UK Aug 19 '23 at 19:38
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    A schematic diagram of the linear \$\pm\$15 volt upply would help get a good answer. – RussellH Aug 20 '23 at 00:44
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    It looks like the ripple on the ±15 supply is dropping below the droput voltage threshold. Look at the input to the regulator with the scope and measure the lowest voltage of the ripple. It should be greater than ±2.4 volts – RussellH Aug 20 '23 at 00:46
  • Hi all, thanks a lot for all the feedbacks. The easy fix is probably to change the main PSU of + and - 15V. It is indeed a linear (or at least used to be :p) and not SM power supply. Regarding the C11 on the negative rail, I didn't put any because the datasheet didn't recomended it. I will try on a breadboard and see the results. – Kostr Aug 20 '23 at 09:30

3 Answers3

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Assuming probing is adequate, and circuit layout hasn't introduced ground loop noise outside of the regulator entirely:

It's hard to say exactly what your noise is (in terms of spectrum), but judging by the 20mV and 20µs scale, it seems to be on the order of 30mVpp, with a strong peak in the 50-100kHz range, plus harmonics; and perhaps other harmonics or noise beyond a few MHz.

There may be other noise that isn't visible here, say if the 1x probe setting implies a conventional 1x/10x probe where the bandwidth is about 6MHz on the 1x setting.

In any case, we have enough information that is worth checking against the regulator's specifications:

LM337 ripple rejection

Source: LM337 Datasheet

In this frequency range, PSRR is under 20dB, meaning a reduction of more than 10x or under say 3mVpp will not be obtained from the regulator alone (it does improve with the CADJ of course, but the advantage drops quickly as frequency rises).

LM317 has a similar limitation, though it performs better than LM337 does at these (transitional to cutoff) frequencies.

(A note on frequency range: these regulators are feedback control systems, internally; the control loop can only respond as fast as it can, with the limiting value being the cutoff frequency. Cutoff isn't directly documented, but corresponds roughly to where PSRR and Zo run out; here, 1MHz or thereabouts. By "transitional", I mean the range over which that gain is decreasing, as frequency increases; this is a necessary aspect of such a control system, and is visible in PSRR as the slope from about 100-100k Hz. At low frequencies, DC gain takes over, and PSRR and Zo are stable vs. frequency; here, below 100Hz.)

If you're looking to get say a few mV, or fractional mV, out of this, you have bigger problems, which the LM337 cannot solve by itself. You will likely also need to deal with common mode noise or ground loops, which are out of scope of this question, but strongly encouraged further reading.

On the upside, such frequencies are readily filtered with an LC network, say a CLC filter using 220uF, 47uH, 220uF (use electrolytics). Common mode requires other mitigation (good layout, CM chokes, shielding and grounding). The regulator's job is then much easier, and performance closer to its intrinsic noise level becomes possible.

You may also consider simply getting a better power supply, from a well regarded major brand, with EMC certifications, from reputable suppliers not shipping counterfeits.

Honestly, I don't even have a clue what would be making that racket. It's too rough, and an odd waveform, to be SMPS output; surely it doesn't have a huge motor hanging off it or something?! In any case, it seems a pretty awful power source.

Tim Williams
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The antique LM317 and LM337 adjustable linear regulators are very good at rejecting 100 Hz that comes from the old school mains transformer, bridge rectifier and electrolytic filter capacitor.

So you could nail this by going the old way. If you want to stick to your noisy SMPS, then look at some simple LC filter that starts to work in the kHz range where the regulator has poor ripple rejection. The currents and voltages are low and the cutoff frequency can be high, so the low-pass filter will not be expensive or huge.

Peter Mortensen
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Autistic
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    OP says the source is linear,which sounds extremely weird looking at the waveform. And if it's a SMPS, it's also a really weird one given the audio frequency ripple. It's really a mystery. – TooTea Aug 20 '23 at 08:46
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At the end the issue was due to the size of the decoupling capacitor. The + and - 15V linear PSU was not too far (10cm twisted cable) from the LM337/LM317, but the recommended 1uF decoupling capacitor of the LM337 (in the schematics C9 and C10) were not sufficient. I changed them for 10uF tantallum capacitor and now the regulators works as a charm.

Voltage Spike
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Kostr
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