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Below is a cutout of the IR sensor part from a heart rate sensor schematic. I need to understand how this part has been designed, what is the basis of the choice of the two resistor values R1 and R2, and the preset R8. The part shown here is a TCRT5000 sensor. I have read elsewhere that reducing R1+R8 can increase the IR light intensity from the bulb which can increase the system's sensitivity as that would mean more reflected light falling on the phototransister, and that that would mean more current from the phototransistor which would mean R2 would need be reduced too. But I don't know the theoretical basis for all this (the math etc) so I don't really get it. What is the job of R2? Why R2 is 10 kΩ? How is R1 and R2 and R8 calculated? Someone kindly explain.

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EDIT: Requesting some explanations basis @user4574 answer:

Firstly, According to the datasheet, the forward current value is 60 mA. Why would the designers restrict the current to just 25 mA? Why not use a smaller resistance than 150 Ω and closer to the limiting 62.5 Ω so there is more brightness and more sensitivity in the system? Second question datasheet says maximum Ic can be 100 mA, which would mean Vr2 = (10000*100)/1000 = 1000 V. What does that means? Thats a scary voltage.

Thirdly, what could be the benefit or fallout of using a higher voltage and a smaller R2 for the phototransistor? Would that make the system more sensitive or less sensitive? I ask because I have seen research papers where they have used a 9V system but I don't know what value of R2 they used.

Fourthly, wouldn't it be better to set R1 and R8 values such that it allows for maximum possible Luminescence at the IR lamp, and then controlling the signal quality from setting a preset at R8? I noticed in this system that human pulse was only visible at approximately R1+R8 = 300 Ω, if R1+R8 was say 70 Ω, would I have been able to see the pulse again by setting the R2 at a lower value through a 10 kΩ preset?

Fifth question, I understand now from your answer what is the role of R2, but suppose it is replaced by a preset and the preset is accidently set to zero, would that in any manner be harmful to the phototransistor?

winny
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DribbleNibble
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    Do you know how LEDs work and how current limiting resistors are used to set brightness? – user1850479 Apr 01 '23 at 13:23
  • @user1850479 I know current limiting resistors are used to set brightness, but I don't know the math behind it. I'm sorry, I know its supposed to be elementary. I also need to know how much resistance is minimum requirement, and if there is a minimum requirement. – DribbleNibble Apr 01 '23 at 13:38
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    Does this answer your question? [Correct formula for LED current-limiting resistor?](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/17179/correct-formula-for-led-current-limiting-resistor) – user1850479 Apr 01 '23 at 13:43
  • I don't know which wise user voted to close this perfectly fine question, but not knowing stack exchange policy, I'd just say its just basic manners to give out your reason while taking such an action. This behaviour is getting too often here. The one asking the question is a fool, the one spending time giving a beautifully detailed answer to the question is a fool, all the people healthily participating in the comments are fools, so some "really needed" wise fella comes along and decides its good to stop it all, doesn't even care to mention why. – DribbleNibble Apr 02 '23 at 03:42
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    @DribbleNibble don't let it bother you ... that person cannot close your question alone ... and if others also vote to close, then the reason is revealed – jsotola Apr 02 '23 at 05:37
  • Have you tried to simulate all the various proposals and see if they work? – winny Apr 02 '23 at 07:33
  • @winny no, I am yet to learn how to do that. Have never used simulation softwares – DribbleNibble Apr 02 '23 at 09:38
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    Simulation is one of, if not the, essential tool for EEs. There are plenty of free and good softwares out there. Ideally, you need a model for your exact optocoupler. If it doesn’t exist, you can build lots of knowledge with some other optocoupler since they all tend to be very similar. I recommend LTspice. – winny Apr 02 '23 at 11:36

1 Answers1

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Per the datasheet

The TCRT5000 and TCRT5000L are reflective sensors which include an infrared emitter and phototransistor in a leaded package which blocks visible light.

The datasheet says that the typical forward voltage of the emitter is 1.25V. With a 5V supply the current through the LED is therefore...

$$I_{D} = \frac{5V - 1.25V}{R_8 + R_1} $$

Given that R8 can go between 0 ohms and 10K ohms, the LED current can go from 369uA to 25mA.

I have read elsewhere that reducing R1+R8 can increase the IR light intensity from the bulb which can increase the system's sensitivity as that would mean more reflected light falling on the phototransister, and that that would mean more current from the phototransistor which would mean R2 would need be reduced too.

That's correct. The current output from the transistor is proportional to the amount of light falling on the detector. The amount of light falling on the detector is proportional to the amount of light emitted from the LED and the reflectivity coefficient of the target material that the light is being reflected from, and inversely proportional to the square of the distance to the target.

But I don't know the theoretical basis for all this (the math etc) so I don't really get it. What is the job of R2? Why R2 is 10K? How is R1 and R2 and R8 calculated? Someone kindly explain.

The phototransistor allows current to pass from its collector to emitter in proportion to the light falling on the detector. If the current passes through R2 then the voltage across R2 is...

$$V_{R2} = R_2 * I_c$$

So the output voltage is...

$$V_{out} = 5V - V_{R2} = 5V - R_2 * I_c$$

The purpose of R2 is to convert the current output of the transistor into a voltage. For an output feeding a low frequency digital input pin on some other device, 10K is a fairly standard choice for a pullup resistor.

Firstly, According to the datasheet, the forward current value is 60 mA. Why would the designers restrict the current to just 25 mA?

Using a part right at its maximum rating is not likely to result in good long-term reliability.

Why not use a smaller resistance than 150 Ω and closer to the limiting 62.5 Ω so there is more brightness and more sensitivity in the system?

Its possible the sensor was sensitive enough at 25mA, in that case, it may not have been necessary to burn the extra power.

Second question datasheet says maximum Ic can be 100 mA, which would mean Vr2 = (10000*100)/1000 = 1000 V. What does that means? Thats a scary voltage.

You won't get 1000V or 100mA with this setup. The transistor can't create extra voltage or current. It just allows current to pass through it.

The maximum voltage you can get across R2 is the supply voltage minus the saturation voltage of the transistor (about 0.4V).

Therefore, the maximum current you can get through R2 is (5V - Vce_sat)/R2, which is about 460uA in this case.

The only way to get close to 100mA would be to lower R2 to like 46 ohms. But even then you probably couldn't get that much since it would require a lot of light.

Fourthly, wouldn't it be better to set R1 and R8 values such that it allows for maximum possible Luminescence at the IR lamp, and then controlling the signal quality from setting a preset at R8? I noticed in this system that human pulse was only visible at approximately R1+R8 = 300 Ω, if R1+R8 was say 70 Ω, would I have been able to see the pulse again by setting the R2 at a lower value through a 10 kΩ preset?

If you did an experiment that showed R1+R8 needed to be in the range of a few hundred ohms to get at reading, then its possible a 10K pot wasn't optimal. On the other hand there could be other experimental conditions (different sensor distances, skin color, placement on body) where it worked better with R1+R8 at several kilo-ohms. It's hard to assess that without more data. Use whatever works best under the conditions you plan to use the device.

Fifth question, I understand now from your answer what is the role of R2, but suppose it is replaced by a preset and the preset is accidently set to zero, would that in any manner be harmful to the phototransistor?

The original circuit was designed with R2=10K. That means that the original designers intended for the detector to be fully on with only 460uA flowing in the transistor.

I can't say for sure, but its likely that under normal conditions transistor isn't going to conduct more than a few 10s of mA even with a lot of light hitting the detector. With a 5V supply that's likely to result in a few tenths of a watt of heat at most, which probably won't burn out the transistor.

user4574
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  • thanks for that elaborate answer, exactly what I was looking for. Two questions please. According to the datasheet, the forward current value is 60mA. Why would the designers restrict the current to just 25mA? Why not use a smaller resistance than 150 Ohm and closer to the limiting 62.5 Ohms so there is more brightness and more sensitivity in the system? Second question datasheet says maximum Ic can be 100mA, which would mean Vr2 = (10000*100)/1000 = 1000V. What does that means? thats a scary voltage. – DribbleNibble Apr 01 '23 at 18:21
  • Thirdly, what could be the benefit or fallout of using a higher voltage and a smaller R8 for the phototransistor? Would that make the system more sensitive or less sensitive? I ask because I have seen research papers where they have used a 9V system but I don't know what value of R8 they used. – DribbleNibble Apr 01 '23 at 18:21
  • @DribbleNibble please add the questions to your "question" at top of this page ... they do not belong in comments ... this site is not a forum – jsotola Apr 01 '23 at 18:38
  • @jsotola I'm just asking elaboration on the existing question, but I'll still add it if you want. And I'm surprised someone voted to close this question. Its a perfectly fine question, some are in just a hurry to vote "close". Don't even care to explain in the comments their "good" reason for voting to close. – DribbleNibble Apr 02 '23 at 03:30
  • I have added the above clarifications I need to my question. I have added two more points also, please take a look. – DribbleNibble Apr 02 '23 at 03:52
  • @DribbleNibble I don't see any close votes – jsotola Apr 02 '23 at 04:40
  • @jsotola there's one, I can see it. It reads "close(1)" underneath my question. – DribbleNibble Apr 02 '23 at 05:31