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I need to measure current going through my PCB, which can be anything between -1200A to +1200A. Accuracy within 1-2% with bandwidth of anything higher than 50kHz.

The conductor is decided by now - I will use a copper bar.

The original plan was to use eight parallel 200uR resistors and measure the voltage drop across one of them. The problem is that bringing such current from the copper bar to several resistors seems to not be possible - the thin copper of the PCB might behave as a fuse.

JRE
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TQQQ
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6 Answers6

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Use several Hall effect sensors, arranged symmetrically round the bar, so that they add for the bar field, but cancel for external fields. Much the same principle as how a Rogowski Coil rejects external fields, but going down to DC as well.

Of course if you don't have the complexity of external fields, then only one is needed.

Neil_UK
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    2 Sensors should be enough to solve the two unknowns: 1) bar field 2) homogeneous background field. this already goes a long way. 2 Sensors at opposite sides, 1 flipped, could even be averaged in analog, to compensate for the background field influence. – tobalt Jan 28 '23 at 20:25
  • You can reduce the requirement for symmetry around the bar if you arrange them symmetrically around a magnetic toroid that is then itself around the bar, instead, but that requires cutting up a toroid to put sensors in--perhaps a bit difficult of a process. Ferrite's hard to cut without shattering. – Hearth Jan 28 '23 at 20:39
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    Magnetic field concentrators suffer from hysteresis, the magnitude of which depends on the characteristics of the ferrite (or powdered iron), and saturation can occur as well. They are mostly needed for low currents. – PStechPaul Jan 29 '23 at 00:54
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    @PStechPaul your criticisms are correct but they are used for both high and low current measurements. So called closed-loop sensors have a coil around the concentrator to keep it at zero flux continuously. The amount of current required to maintain zero flux is proportional to the current being measured. This avoids offset, hysteresis and saturation issues and makes degaussing unnecessary. – user57037 Jan 29 '23 at 18:53
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How about field sensors? If the busbar is rectangular it shouldn't be that difficult to place the sensor.

  • Example 1 : ACS70310
  • Example 2 : two or three sensors with integrated conductor like ACS772

or other devices from Allegro https://www.allegromicro.com/en/products/sense/current-sensor-ics

filo
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  • it's an option, thank you. The field concentrators are a headache though. But i will definitely explore this option – TQQQ Jan 28 '23 at 19:20
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Use a linear Hall effect sensor attached to or close to the bus bar. They are less than two dollars. However, they measure the magnetic field, so the output will vary due to external influences, although at 1000A the effect should be insignificant.

This is available as a flattened TO-92 package or a SOT-23. The device must be mounted such that the magnetic field passes through the flat surface orthagonally.

DRV5053 TO-92

PStechPaul
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9

Super easy. Have a conductor of known characteristics somewhere in the system. This can (and arguably, should) be any conductor that has another job and is fit for the task. Having a dedicated ammeter shunt is unnecessary; any wire can be the "shunt" if its characteristics are known. And why wouldn't they be? :)

Measure the voltage difference between opposite ends of it.

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

It is measuring down the voltage drop of the thick black line, because that line has known characteristics so it's a simple matter of plugging values into Ohm's Law.

It is vital that the voltage sense wire (fine black) have voltage drop on itself kept to functionally zero. That means the millivolt measurement device must itself be high impedance, and there cannot be ANY other load placed on these sense wires. You must resist the urge to use the sense wire as a supply wire for some auxiliary load.

Interesting note: Presuming that your supply is oriented with one leg of the source being nominally GND, the voltage seen by the voltmeter will be very close to 0 volts even though system voltage is hundreds of volts. However if the thick black wire suffers a casualty, all bets are off.

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    For better accuracy, the temperature of the copper conductor should be monitored and compensation applied accordingly. – PStechPaul Jan 29 '23 at 00:30
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    For 1% accuracy, the temperature of the conductor must be known to within +- 3°C. – jpa Jan 29 '23 at 07:23
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    1% or even 5% accuracy with a copper conductor is rather not possible. Deformation, aging, oxidation - factors build up. – fraxinus Jan 29 '23 at 18:35
  • Copper is a terrible shunt material because of the high temperature coefficient. – user57037 Jan 29 '23 at 18:46
  • @mkeith yeah, but it's hard to find a material that is the kind of "better" you'd need. Anyway like I said, the material is all near 0V nominally, so slap a thermosensor on it. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jan 29 '23 at 19:18
  • @fraxinus you do realize copper is found in nature in nugget form, right? That is, unlike almost every other element, it had not corroded to oxide in 5 billion years (or 5000 depending on who you believe LOL). It's not likely to start now, unless OP's environment is hostile in very particular ways. Also someone handling 1200A might consider aluminum (slightly better temp coefficient) which has proven reliable (other than that small branch circuit wiring fiasco, which had its reasons) in 100 million + homes in North America. Corrosion or deradation would be evident. It's not. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jan 29 '23 at 19:24
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    @Harper-ReinstateMonica I am chemist, in fact, and not a real EE. Metallic copper is found sometimes, but it is pretty much known to oxidize in air. 3-4 decades old bare copper conductors do get black (CuO). Not enough to increase resistance to impractical level, pretty much enough to ruin your measurement efforts in an year or two. – fraxinus Jan 29 '23 at 20:03
  • @fraxinus I don't deny your expertise, but over on DIY stack exchange people post pictures of 40-year-old junction boxes everyday, and in the last 7 years I've seen most of them lol. Go look! Shiny copper, not degraded at all. At most a fractional micron of tarnish. So I am sorry but your theory doesn't match field data. If it were true it would require massive changes to the electrical code. Older wires do not run hotter than new ones. Acid environments notwithstanding... get near a pool or lead-acid battery, and all bets are off LOL. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jan 29 '23 at 23:45
  • I have only seen black copper on boats, and only after many years. – user57037 Jan 30 '23 at 01:06
  • I have seen green copper many places, but it seems to be self-arresting as the underlying copper is usually in good shape. – user57037 Jan 30 '23 at 01:07
  • @Harper-ReinstateMonica Just fyi: Copper is among the most terrible metals when it comes to corrosion resistance. Almost all other metals build self-passivating scales in air. Copper doesn't and will eventually oxidize *all the way through*. Mineral nuggets only exist because they are in oxygen depleted environments. 35 µm Copper, especially when hot would vanish extremely quickly in air. It is fine when passivated with solder mask or tin, though. So this method is practical of course, when the accuracy requirement isn't too high – tobalt Jan 31 '23 at 08:59
  • @Tobalt Why is there a discrepancy between your statement and copper's successful use in home wiring, the durability of the Statue of Liberty, and those literal nuggets of metal which created the first metal age because it was one of the few that could be found primordially in metallic form? 35 µm sounds a little thin for 1200A... – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jan 31 '23 at 19:57
  • Copper in the weathers can form a "special" greenish passivation that is not only oxide, but also contains sulfur, carbon. In addition natural copper contains nickel which helps with passivation. In indoor conditions, however there is mostly oxygen and water driving the corrosion, against which pure copper is not resistant. But all of copper used indoors is cladded/buried/tinned etc. or alloyed, so it will last very long. – tobalt Jan 31 '23 at 20:16
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To measure currents as high as this, magnetic flux sensors are preferable to resistive, as they give you a galvanically isolated signal.

If you don't have galvanic isolation, you have to be extremely careful with the wiring, since a stray connection on the sensing circuitry can cause very high currents to flow, with considerable damage and the potential for injury.

Regardless of the measurement method, the big problem you will face with any self-made solution is calibration; it is all very fine making your own resistor, but the value will be very low and difficult to measure accurately; even with an (expensive) low-ohm meter, you will struggle to get within your 2% accuracy requirement.

Similarly, how are you going to calibrate the signal from a hall sensor? I'm guessing you don't have a calibrated source of 1000A to hand, in which case you'll have to use the highest calibrated current you can muster, and multiple turns of wire (e.g. 100 turns of 10A to make 1000A) and hope that the magnetic field isn't too distorted by the approximation.

When measuring DC railway traction current (up to 600A) we did use inline current shunts (somewhat hairy on a moving train) but ended up using LEM magnetic flux current-sensors which were much easier, and not too expensive, considering what they were measuring; I recently found one on an auction site for minimal cost, since there isn't much demand for them.

jayben
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Use a shunt meant for busbar / screw mounting. There is really no point in bringing that amount of current back onto a PCB, if you don't need to.

We had an automotive application where we measured some quite extreme battery currents. We used something similar to this shunt, just packaged up and potted. For just 24,40 € this is shunt is practically free.

https://www.bourns.com/docs/product-datasheets/csm2f-7036-0.pdf

I would add a half decent current sense amplifier or an ADC with PGA on a small pcb and be done with it, something like this but a little bigger. This, you can then screw this module to the ends of a busbar. something like the bigger automotive fuses

tbuerg
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  • Is it simply pressed to the bus bar? I can't understand the direction of pressure. Do i mount them as SMT on PCB, then fasten to the bus bar on top of it? – TQQQ Jan 30 '23 at 15:41
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    I'd probably use a daughter board connected with a cable. You can screw that onto the busbars wherever needed, mounted something [like this](https://www.nijkerk-ne.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/bacshunt.png) but with a current sense amplifier. – tbuerg Jan 31 '23 at 08:38
  • Yes, good idea. Frankly, your answer is my favorite so far :) When no new ideas will come up, i will tag it as the final answer – TQQQ Jan 31 '23 at 17:25
  • what do you think about soldering this resistor on the bus bars? – TQQQ Jan 31 '23 at 17:36
  • I cant recomend soldering the shunt. Just clean the connecting surfaces of grease & oxide then screw them together, conductor on conductor (i.e. nothing inbetween). – tbuerg Feb 01 '23 at 13:22
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    For low voltages you can find complete current measuring units, mostly for solar charging applications, like [these, by victron](https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-SmartShunt-EN.pdf). – tbuerg Feb 01 '23 at 13:42
  • thank you... One more question. These resistors are a little too big for my application. The 8536 package is too wide, the 36mm doesn't fit. Do you think it's a good idea to embed two of 8518 50uR? – TQQQ Feb 01 '23 at 17:11
  • why not, but you might need one CSA per Shunt. Also, if one shunt fails, the other won't be rated to survive the whole current. – tbuerg Feb 02 '23 at 07:43