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The problem: AC 230 VAC fans in a system rated to 100 °C need to be monitored for failure.

There is no third wire, just the L and N leads.

None of the potential solutions seem good. For example:

  1. Optical coupler of some kind
  2. Hall sensor near motor
  3. Stall current sense resistor (would mean Live escaping into the control electronics)

Any ideas? Naturally, the easier and cheaper the better but another constraint is that this needs to be a retrofit. Changing the fan type is not an option. High-temperature, high-reliability fans are in short supply.

ocrdu
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Dirk Bruere
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    Air flow sensors maybe? – Rohat Kılıç Jan 25 '23 at 14:23
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    Stall current sense resistor driving an optocoupler? – Finbarr Jan 25 '23 at 14:25
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    Can you see the fan blades? Optical/laser sensor with beam intermittently broken? How easy is it to access/maintain? – Matt S Jan 25 '23 at 14:25
  • @MattS Everything invisible – Dirk Bruere Jan 25 '23 at 14:41
  • @Finbarr Maybe, but it would need to send an analog output – Dirk Bruere Jan 25 '23 at 14:42
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    Why? Stalled is a yes/no status. – Finbarr Jan 25 '23 at 14:45
  • @Finbarr Tell me how I get the binary status then. – Dirk Bruere Jan 25 '23 at 15:25
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    The optocoupler LED needs a certain voltage to turn on. Size the sense resistor so that it doesn't happen until the stall current is reached. – Finbarr Jan 25 '23 at 15:31
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    @Finbarr motors can fail open-circuit as well as short circuit, current measurement is not a great direct way to detect a stalled or slow running fan. – John U Jan 27 '23 at 11:58
  • @JohnU That depends if you're talking about a stalled fan or one that has simply stopped. And you can always check for zero drop across the resistor as well to check for the latter. – Finbarr Jan 27 '23 at 13:17
  • Are you in a position to disclose some more details on the system where the fan are installed? This could allow us to give you more spot-on answers. As it stands it's a bit of shooting in the dark. – LorenzoDonati4Ukraine-OnStrike Jan 27 '23 at 19:53
  • @LorenzoDonatisupportUkraine I know, but it is accident related and may have legal implications – Dirk Bruere Jan 28 '23 at 14:14
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    @Finbarr - all true but my point is that current draw does not tell you what the fan is actually doing, you have to take a series of varying-quality guesses about it. Short/open is easy but running slightly high or low could mean something or nothing... More direct measurement of actual air flow gives you a more solid answer, since OP cares that cooling is happening, not the exact fan current. – John U Jan 29 '23 at 16:26

8 Answers8

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The fan is supposed to be moving air, so what about putting a thin wire in the airflow and attempting to heat it? The resistance will increase at high temperatures, so measuring the current should reveal how much cooling the fan provides. Certain kinds of wire (maybe nichrome) will be better suited for this.

I did a search for air flow sensors, and discovered that the automotive industry is doing something similar. I this case, mass air flow ("MAF") sensors put a temperature sensor next to the heated wire and use that for measurement. I guess they are more precise, but your application may not need that amount of precision.

gbarry
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    This makes sense as the context is to detect *failure* rather than specifically just a stalled fan. If the system is supposed to move air, it's broken when air isn't moving. Stalled fan isn't the only thing that could make the air stop moving. – user253751 Jan 25 '23 at 16:52
  • These are also available as off-the-shelf solutions, e.g. [FS7.0.1L.195](https://www.digikey.fi/en/products/detail/innovative-sensor-technology,-usa-division/FS7.0.1L.195/13686698) – jpa Jan 26 '23 at 09:49
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    Mass flow sensor is the correct answer. (Relatively) cheap, simple, reliable, highly available. – Ian Kemp Jan 26 '23 at 17:22
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    Even simpler there are very sensitive air pressure switches/sensors used in things like washing machines to detect water levels - they flip on/off with very little air pressure, are available in differential or absolute and are less complex / do not need to be in the airflow path. As long as there's some reliable amount of air pressure difference from one side of the fan to the other, you can probably use one. – John U Jan 27 '23 at 11:59
  • It's a nice trick, but it may not work to detect a stalled fan. Depending on how the system is made, a stalled fan might not impede air flow (maybe there are multiple fans in the systems, or there is a natural convection flow, etc.). So the sensor might not give an on/off indication, and should need to be calibrated for a continuous measurement and then a correlation must be established between temperature of the wire and the likelihood that a specific fan has stopped. Without further info from the OP it's not possible to tell. – LorenzoDonati4Ukraine-OnStrike Feb 10 '23 at 11:26
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Acoustic methods should work – after all, without air as medium the system wouldn't do much.

First order approach is a microphone that simply measures noise levels close to the fan in question.
That would entail rectification (possibly with a precision rectifier opamp configuration; might as well add a bit of gain while we're at it), and low-pass filtering (RC would do it), followed by some threshold (e.g. the Schmitt trigger input of a 74xx series logic IC, but honestly, a single transistor might just do; it's not that you're calibrating studio speakers, you're trying to figure out whether there's a fan running in front of your face).


Next better method probably is quite overkill, but: I assume there's some kind of enclosure. When I think of that I think "oh, an acoustic resonator!" and as a radio signals processing person, that brings a warm and fuzzy feeling of being at home. So, place a piezoelectric emitter and a microphone in that enclosure. Drive the emitter at fixed frequency (probably ultrasonic), and filter out that frequency in the receiver – that can happen in acoustic shapes (though I've never done this), analog forms (notch filter!) and digital forms.

Rotating blades cause Doppler effect. Given these fans probably spin relatively fast, significant Doppler effect, which you can observe as tones falling far enough from the emitter's frequency that they are outside of your filtering's stopband. Seeing that the frequency of these spinning rotor masses probably won't change too abruptly, this converts the question

How many fans are there in my system, and at which speeds are they running?

into one that's just

How many tones do I observe, and at which frequencies are these?

Without going into too much detail here, plenty of approaches to this spectrum estimation problem. The classical one being "just throw an FFT at it", but that limits your frequency resolution by the length of your FFT (not too bad, long FFTs are still extremely cheap). If you want to spend a few brain cycles on the problem, there's other nice models that fit here pretty well: estimating the parameters of an autoregressive model from Yule-Walker equations would be a beautiful thing.

(For perspective: Replace your ultrasonic transducer with a radio emitter. Now, some helicopter behind the next hill isn't directly visible, but it gets hit by indirect reflections off relatively stationary objects like other hills, buildings, parked cars…. Likewise, the reflections of the emissions hitting the helicopter blades are receivable at your position indirectly. Now, sometimes a helicopter blade will be moving in the direction the EM wave came from, causing a positive Doppler frequency, other times it will move away, causing negative Doppler. So, you would first receive these reflection, then estimate the frequency modulation around the transmit frequency, and then you'd estimate the frequency of the tone that will be in that – and you get the rotational speed of the rotor, times the number of blades. Because estimating frequencies (that you can know roughly a priori) can be done on long coherent sequences of samples with processing gain, the fact that you lose a lot of energy to free space and multiple reflections is not that much a problem.)

Marcus Müller
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    Doing a speaker and microphone and signal processing stuff is *clever* but compared to passing a laser beam through the fan, or detecting the current, it's unnecessarily complicated. And if the goal is to detect overall system failure rather than just fan stall, try to detect the air movement as gbarry suggested. – user253751 Jan 25 '23 at 16:50
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    @user253751 hence the first two paragraphs, and me starting the description of the Doppler sonar system *literally* with the words "…is quite overkill", you know... – Marcus Müller Jan 25 '23 at 16:52
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    and the asker explicitly said lasers can't pass through the blades. – Marcus Müller Jan 25 '23 at 16:53
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    The acoustic method could just be a LPF and amplitude detection. Interestingly, there are microphones available in the few-dollar range (qty-1) which have response to sub-10Hz. The really cheap ones start to roll off around 100Hz, which is a bit high for a few hundred RPM fan. (some interesting other stuff there too, I sense a tempting rabbit hole) – Spehro Pefhany Jan 25 '23 at 17:48
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    @SpehroPefhany Re: Rabbit Hole: Sometimes I feel made of these. – Marcus Müller Jan 25 '23 at 18:15
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In general, fan power consumption will be proportional to how much air it is moving. Barring any other failures, this will be fairly steady for a fan in a fixed location.

Knowing this, you can sense fan motor current to detect an abnormal condition. A clamp-on coil can do this, so no need to break into the wire.

Algorithmically it could be as simple as sampling the rms current on the normal fan to establish a baseline, then after, firing an alarm if the value is outside a specified range from baseline.

This can detect a number of failures, including seized bearings, coil open/short, a blocked duct or even a loss of power.

You could also make a non-contact RPM sensor. If the issue is mixing high and low voltage wiring, a solution could be a remote fiber optic sensor, like these: https://www.keyence.com/products/sensor/fiber-optic/

However, it might not reasonable to assume you could pull a fiber in the same conduit as AC, as fiber cable is somewhat fragile, has limits on bend radius, and may not have the same thermal rating as your fan wire (and at 100 deg. C ambient, you're already well beyond the limits of typical wire - what's your plan for that?) Still, it's a popular solution in industrial settings.

hacktastical
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Upgrading this from a comment to an answer:

A differential pressure sensor (EG MPX4250 style) or switch will detect that there's no pressure gradient (hence airflow) from one side of the fan to the other.

This is non-contact & does not need to be IN the airflow path, can be solid-state, and is directly measuring the problem (no airflow) as opposed to inferring the answer from some other measurement (EG motor current) which is not necessarily 100% indicative of any air actually flowing.

John U
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Measure temperature in the enclosure.

I assume the point of the fans is to cool components inside the enclosure. So why not measure temperature instead of trying to detect a stalled fan? Rough temperature measurements are fairly easy and it would also protect the components in case anything else with the cooling goes wrong (very hot ambient temperatures, dirty or blocked air outlet etc.).

Michael
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  • This is the best solution, unless temperature monitoring is already in place and OP wants to add fan monitoring to that (for example to help with troubleshooting which of the N fans is dead). Monitoring the temperature should always be the first step and it can be done with and off-the-shelf thermostat. – TooTea Jan 26 '23 at 12:16
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    Temperature is already monitored. The fans are used to circulate hot air internally. If they fail the temperature stratifies. Of course, we could add even more temperature monitors... – Dirk Bruere Jan 26 '23 at 13:10
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Why wouldn't stall-current measurement work?

They are AC fans, so use a current transformer. They can be pretty rugged and mechanically simple (no temperature-sensitive semiconductor near the high-temp area) and the measurement signal is isolated from live AC.

  • They can be temperature sensitive though. If the temperature goes above the Curie point of the magnetic material used, they'll drop in effectiveness quite a lot. – Hearth Jan 27 '23 at 16:50
  • @Hearth OK, but I've seen CT rated up to 130°C, so it's just a matter of selecting a CT designed for high-temperature operation. After all the OP just wants an on-off signal, not a precise current measurement, so it seems doable. BTW, probably it is not even necessary that the CT be placed near the high temp area, but just on the mains cabling powering the fans. I guess there is a part of the cabling that runs in a cooler area before reaching the high-temp site where the fans are installed. – LorenzoDonati4Ukraine-OnStrike Jan 27 '23 at 19:50
  • Sure. Just a note of another thing that needs to be considered; someone inexperienced might not think that a simple passive component like a transformer could be temperature sensitive. If measuring current with a Hall sensor is a problem, I would assume that means the transducer needs to be near the high-temperature area. – Hearth Jan 27 '23 at 21:29
  • Stall current assumes the fan would stop whilst drawing stall current and not trip a breaker, have a connection go high-impedance, have a mechanical failure that means the motor is running but no air is being moved, etc. etc. – John U Jan 29 '23 at 16:28
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Another approach could be:

  1. Paint a spot on the fan blades with a highly reflective paint (temperature resistant).

  2. Illuminate the reflective spot with an LED with a narrow beam.

  3. Detect the reflected light with a photodiode. If the reflected light is not changing the fan is stalled.

Of course this would work if there's no ambient light to interfere, but you said everything is invisible, so I assume the fan is installed in some equipment where there's no light ingress.

A problem could be if the air moved by the fan is polluted by dust or other airborne substances that can reflect or absorb the LED light. Interference could come from other reflective surfaces inside the fan environment, e.g. aluminium walls of a pipe.

The signal from the LED could also be used to monitor the speed of the fan, with appropriate conditioning and processing.

If the material of the fan blades is already reflective, maybe you don't even need to paint them.

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Several years ago there was a product called LSI-55 (for Load Status Indicator) for use on boats where much equipment was no readily visible or easily accessed (bilge pumps, fans, that sort of thing). Might be a solution for you. https://www.truckinginfo.com/150442/new-load-status-indicator-from-trident-industries

LTaibbi
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