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I have a very weird science experiment, where I need to provide 50 A over a cable. The requirement is independent of voltage (for a Hall-effect sensor).

My plan was to use a 5 V, 100 A power supply and hook up cables and a load resistor to create this wire loop.

I'm now sitting at my bench, and wondering... what gauge wire should I use for the loop with the load resistor?

Looking at wire charts, usually wiring is rated in specific amps. Why is the cabling not rated in watts or at specific voltages?

In my mind, if I take a cable and provide 5 VDC with a 50 A load, my cable is carrying 250 W of electrons, however, if I provide 120 VDC with a 50 A load, my cable is carrying 6000 W of electrons.

What isn't the power the rated factor on the cabling? A power supply is usually rated in watts.

ocrdu
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Leroy105
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  • I'm not really looking for a chart -- I get what the chart says, but why...? Intuivetly, I am providing 14 gauge of 120V to a 5V DC power supply (rated for 500 watts output), my current loop will be 5V x 50A [250 watts] but the chart says I need 6 gauge wire for 50A [or whatever the gauge to stated amperage listed value is]? Not really looking for a specific answer, but a why. – Leroy105 Jan 10 '23 at 19:19
  • @Leroy105 how does any single piece of wire even know about the overall voltage of your system? It doesn't. What heats it up is P=I²·R, so that's why you only care about I; by the way, also mentioned in the first bullet point in the answer to the linked question. – Marcus Müller Jan 10 '23 at 19:21
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    There's too many questions, only one which is answered by the one linked as duplicate. But wire gauge depends on amps flowing in copper conductors, and that determines the wattage lost in the wire, it has nothing to do with voltage or wattage provided to load. How much voltage in respect to surroundings it can handle depends on wire insulation. Five amps is five amps, whether it's about 400kV power distribution or 12V car wiring. – Justme Jan 10 '23 at 19:23
  • You may find that reviewing [this question about choosing power supplies](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q/34745/2028) helps to answer your question as well. In addition, here is [another question](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q/82635/2028) about selecting wire that I finally found. – JYelton Jan 10 '23 at 19:32
  • Are you using those *50 A* to create a magnetic field? When running conductors carrying high currents in conductors parallel&close to each other, there will be a mechanical force - see definition of a Newton. A concern in case of attraction and bare wires, at least. – greybeard Jan 11 '23 at 06:06

1 Answers1

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The thickness/material of the conductor determines current capacity while insulation thickness/material determines voltage rating. Do not multiply the ratings to get some sort of "power rating" -- that is not how cables work.

In other words, you need an appropriate gauge for 50A regardless of the voltage. You then also need the appropriate insulation rating for safety with respect to the voltage.

The reason, since you asked in a comment, is that current is a quantity of electrons over time (1 A = 1 coulomb/second). Voltage is the difference of potential between the voltage source and ground. Thus, you can have a variable voltage at a given current, and by definition the same number of charges pass through the conductor per unit time.

Analogies are never 100%, but water in a pipe is sometimes used to help conceptualize this. Voltage would be akin to the water pressure, while current would be analogous to the flow rate. You can have the same flow rate at different pressures. Higher pressure would require thicker walls while higher flow rates would require a larger diameter pipe.


Additional remarks, based on comments:

Voltage Drop & Conductor Cooling

  • Wires aren't superconductors[citation needed] so you have to think of them as low value resistors. When you do this, it should become obvious that the wire will, like a resistor, dissipate some power and impart a voltage drop. A voltage drop is simply the difference in voltage across a component or wire. If you're familiar with series resistor circuits, then you know each resistor drops voltage proportional to its resistance. The wire does, too.

  • For a given length, a wire with a larger diameter will have less resistance, and thus a lower voltage drop.

  • The power law (\$P=I^2R\$) shows that the cable will dissipate some amount of power as heat proportional to the current through it.

  • A 12 gauge wire has 5.2 mΩ of resistance per meter. A 6 gauge wire has 1.3 mΩ per meter (source). The power (heat) dissipated by a meter of wire carrying 50 A will be 13 watts for the 12 gauge, and 3.25 watts for the 6 gauge.

  • Heat is generated by the wire has to go somewhere. If it is in a bundle and not air-cooled, the heat will increase the temperature of the wire/bundle.

  • The temperature rise above ambient, for 50 A through 12 gauge wire in free air, would be about 100 degrees. Comparatively, for 6 gauge wire, it is negligible.

    Temperature rise chart of wire in free air

    Source

  • If you had some sort of cooling system to remove the heat from smaller-gauge wire, you could, in fact, use it. But now you've got a whole cooling system to install, maintain, and power!

  • A final thought, if you need 50 amperes for your experiment at some distance from the power source, you might consider using AC and stepping it up and down in voltage with transformers, just as power transmission lines do. For example if your load is 250 watts, you could supply 50 volts AC at 5 amperes, send that over 22 AWG wire, then step it down in voltage using a 10:1 transformer rated for 50 A on the secondary winding. If you need DC, use a bridge rectifier to convert from AC to DC. These additional items add some cost and complexity, so you'll have to weigh this against the cost and hassle of purchasing and using 6 AWG wire.

JYelton
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  • So, why is there chassis rating vs. power rating? This is what I'm trying to tease out. I think there is more than algebra / Ohm's law at play here. Trying to wrap my fingers on the fringe variables. See: https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm I get the voltage breakdown on the insulator. I get the stock answer about bundling vs. open air on the wire, but in terms of current then bundled vs. unbundled is there voltage drop and conductor cooling? (Point being: the science experiment is gonna be a huge pain in the ass with 6 gauge wire and the current terminations. ) – Leroy105 Jan 10 '23 at 19:43
  • The _chassis_ term shows up when the charts are talking about bundled cables versus free air. It can be confusing, but a given wire can conduct more current if it has convection cooling by air as opposed to being in a conduit or bundle where heat buildup is a problem. I touched on this a bit in [this answer](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/82652/2028). – JYelton Jan 10 '23 at 20:21
  • For me, when I was struggling to understand these current ratings for conductors, the "a-ha!" moment was when I realized that the current rating isn't for "how much current can a copper wire of a certain gauge carry before it _fails_" but rather "how much current can a copper wire of a certain gauge carry before it heats up beyond some limit." The former case is literally where copper melts, but you want your wiring sized such that you get _nowhere_ close to that! – JYelton Jan 10 '23 at 20:26
  • Yeah, I agree. That's kind of why I introduced the idea of "wattage" -- for some reason, intuitively it seems to me like a combination of voltage & amperage, should produce a certain heat increase leading up a conductor breakdown... That's just what I see at the front. Honestly, this is some crazy science experiment in the context of some product testing to set up this coil, but the point was to tease out any edge case factors in an open air bench experiment of a pretty low wattage device. My 12 gauge AC mains wiring is powering the DC power supply, and yet the rating answer is 6 gauge? – Leroy105 Jan 10 '23 at 20:53
  • I just went to home depot to get 6 gauge through 14 gauge, and for some reason I don't think I'll see a conductor break down at 12 gauge for this 50 amp experiment... – Leroy105 Jan 10 '23 at 20:54
  • The "chassis wiring" rating is for point-to-point wiring inside an enclosure and assumes that the wires aren't bundled together. The "power transmission" rating is more conservative and takes into account the worst case scenario of a wire surrounded on all sides by wires that are also carrying current and heating up. Why isn't there a power rating for wires? Because the current rating is based on a heat limit and the heat comes from I²R losses. E.g. tethered drones will supply hundreds of watts through 28 gauge wire with high voltage. At 5V, 28 gauge is too small to charge your phone. – vir Jan 10 '23 at 20:54
  • Make sure to position things so they don't short out when you melt the insulation on the 12 gauge wire. – vir Jan 10 '23 at 20:55
  • Yeah I've got a non-conductive safe space. – Leroy105 Jan 10 '23 at 20:56
  • @Leroy105 I added some thoughts as bullet-points to hopefully address some more of your questions. If you have more questions, I recommend 1) searching the site for them and then 2) asking a specific question that narrowly focuses on the area of confusion. Don't hesitate to ask multiple simple questions over fewer complicated/compound ones! – JYelton Jan 10 '23 at 21:08
  • Understood. That's really helpful on the power / temperature condition. So, what I'm seeing with a smaller load; 14 AWG, 5V, 10Amp load. Wire is fine, the flipping resistor is scary hot though!. In the chart it's rated for 6A power transmission, and 32A chassis... I'm at 10A, and the wire is cool to touch but the resistor needs a fan and/or additional heatsink. I come on StackExchange once a year for some random EE thing, and it bums me to see this closed out because I think there is way more here than just "see the chart, stupid..." – Leroy105 Jan 10 '23 at 21:15
  • @Leroy105 At face value, your question _is_ mostly a duplicate of several other questions about selecting wire gauge for projects. Since comments are just for clarifications to questions or answers, I recommend asking a new question and perhaps add a schematic and details about your load resistor or other things you may have questions about. Cheers! – JYelton Jan 10 '23 at 23:24