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I would like to know if it is possible to estimate the loss of Litz wire by using a simple equation.

For a planar transformer, I can estimate the DC loss by calculating the resistance at low frequency.

How can I do that with Litz wire?

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ocrdu
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1 Answers1

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You should further explain how the transformer is being used.

I suggest you read the following answers given electronics.stackexchange on the subject of winding losses. If you have a university library nearby, see if they have the books authored by E. C. Snelling.

General discussion of design parameters.
Proximity loss calculations.
Optimal wire diameter and interleaving.

To sum up the above discussions:
Losses in magnetics (transformers and inductors) have the following major loss mechanisms: DC resistance (what you measure with an Ohm meter), AC resistance (eddy losses), and additional AC losses when you near the resonant frequency of the magnetics.

DC loss:
The following formula is for round conductors, either single strand or muli-stranded like Litz or bunched conductors.
$$ R_{dc} = {{4 \rho_c N l_w} \over {\pi s d^2}}$$
\$ \rho_c = \$ resistivity of annealed copper = 1.72e−8 Ω⋅m at 20°C
\$ N = \$ number of turns
\$ l_w = \$ mean length of one turn [m] [ferrite data books give this value under bobbin specifications)
\$ s = \$ number of wire strands
\$ d = \$ wire strand diameter [m]

Derivation of this formula:
The standard equation for conductor resistance is given in basic electronic and physics books as:

$$ R = {\rho_c {L \over A}} $$

\$ L \$ = length of the conductor.
For a circular bobbin wound inductor/transformer
\$ L = N \; l_w \$
where \$ N \$ = number of turns, \$ l_w \$ = mean length of one turn around the bobbin.

\$ A \$ = the cross-sectional area of the conductor.
For a circular conductor, \$ A = \pi \; r^2 = \pi {d^2 \over 4}\$
Where \$ r \$ = radius of the conductor, \$ d \$ = diameter of the conductor.

MWS Wire has a table of Litz wire characteristics, including DC resistance.

AC loss:
AC loss is primarily dominated by proximity effect losses, the eddy loss due to the magnetic field of adjacent conductors at frequencies below a couple MHz. Skin effect, the eddy loss due to the magnetic field of the conductor, is present, but usually not significant below a couple MHz. AC loss is is dependent on frequency, wire diameter (larger is not always better as borne out of the proximity loss equation), number of strands (proximity effect losses can be reduced by using bunched or litz wire), interwinding capacitance (affects resonant frequency), number of turns, and eddy losses in the core material which is dependent on flux density and frequency.

Larger diameter wire reduces DC loss.
Smaller diameter wire reduces AC loss.
If operating at a single frequency there is an optimal wire diameter. The graph below shows the calculated loss resistances versus wire diameter at a given frequency (200 kHz in the example plot), number of turns, and bobbin geometry. \$R_{dc}\$ is the DC resistance and \$R_{pe}\$ is the resistance due to proximity effect.

TransformerLosses

You may ask, is the equation for proximity effect loss accurate? From personal experience, it is. I'm usually within 5% as measured on a HP4195 impedance analyzer.

Litz Wire
The picture you show of stranded wire is not Litz wire. That is a common stranded hookup wire with 7 strands. The picture you show is wrong as the strands should be twisted so they don't splay out when the insulation is stripped. Plus, stranded wire for magnetics normally doesn't use thick insulation. Litz and bunched conductor wire used for magnetics consists of individually insulated strands of wire which reduces eddy losses. Uninsulated strands will not reduce eddy losses as efficiently as insulated strands. The image below is 25/40 HPN-155 Litz wire which has the approximate same cross sectional area of #26 AWG solid wire.
25 = number of strands
40 = 40 AWG diameter wire (0.079 mm dia) which is the individual strand diameter
HPN = heavy polyester-nylon insulation
155 = 155°C insulation thermal class.

LitzWire

Real Life Calculations
In response to the OPs comment about how this is done in real life... Lets say we want to wind magnetics using an RM5 core with 20 turns of 25/40 Litz wire. From an old Ferroxcube handbook (circa 1982), the graph says we can fit about 25 turns of #24 wire (equivalent diameter of 25/40 Litz) on a single section bobbin. BTW, the newer Ferroxcube handbooks removed a lot of design graphs such as the turns per bobbin graph.

TurnsPerBobbin

The following image is from a modern Ferroxcube ferrite handbook. average length of turn, \$ l_w \$, is 24.9 mm for a winding that occupies all of the winding area. If the windings don't fill up the full area, you'll need to figure out a new average (mean) winding length. From the above graph, we can expect the bobbin to be 80% full with 20 turns of 25/40 Litz wire. In practice, I may choose to ignore the difference in \$ l_w \$ because it will be "close enough".

bobbindimensions

The total length of the winding is \$ N \times l_w = 20 \times 24.9 = 498 \; mm = 0.498 \; m\$.

The resistance of one strand of #40 AWG (0.0787 mm dia) wire can be figured out from the basic formula. $$ R = {\rho_c {L \over A}} = {1.72 \text{E−8} {0.498 \over 4.87 \text{E-9}} = 1.76 \; \Omega} $$ Since the 25 strands are in parallel, divide the resistance of the single #40 strand by \$ s = 25 \$, thus, \$ R_{dc} = {1.76 \over 25} = 0.070 \Omega \$ .

The \$ R_{dc} \$ equation starts with the basic resistance of a conductor equation which is fit to the case of a practical situation.

If you want to be pedantic, since Litz wire is twisted, the effective length of the wire is increased. The paper I referenced by Tang & Sullivan in the comments discusses this.

The real test is to wind the magnetics and test on an impedance analyzer and a DC ohmmeter. The AC losses increase when you approach resonance. If winding a transformer, you will be interested in the leakage inductance. Usually, one tries to minimize leakage inductance, however, there are cases where some amount of leakage inductance is desirable.

qrk
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  • Hi, Your explain is very good, but I am curious about one thing, where did you get the Rdc equation? can you let me know where I can find the related information? – Magnetic778 Sep 19 '22 at 22:34
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    @Magnetic778 The DC resistance of a conductor is \$ \rho_c {L/A}\$, where L = length of the wire and A is the cross-sectional area of the wire. This equation is given in basic electronics books. For a circular conductor, the cross-sectional area is \$ \pi r^2 = \pi d^2/4 \$. If you have multiple stands, that's equivalent to resistors in parallel, thus divide the resistance of a single strand by number of strands (\$s\$). The length is the mean length (\$l_w\$) of the turn multiplied by the number of turns. – qrk Sep 19 '22 at 23:54
  • Hi @qrk, I update some figures, I would like to check the equation with you, about the number of strands (s), based on my pictures the s should equal 7, right? About lw, is it correct that I describe in my figure, by the way, I would like to check the Rdc based on the MAXWELL simulation, tomorrow. have you compared the Rdc value with your experiment? I am curious about its accuracy. and when you measure on an HP4195, what's your operating frequency? – Magnetic778 Sep 20 '22 at 14:40
  • @Magnetic778 I added additional info to the main body of my post: derivation of Rdc for a practical situation (bobbin) and Litz wire description. The lw shown in your picture is wrong. That should be L, or the length of the conductor. lw is the mean length of a single turn on a bobbin. Using the formula for DC resistance works in practice. Just be sure that you use the correct resistivity for the type of copper. Most wire is annealed copper which has a higher resistivity than pure copper. Many electronic books get this wrong which is why experimental data doesn't match with theoretical. – qrk Sep 20 '22 at 18:12
  • @Magnetic778 Oops, I omitted showing the spot frequency which is 200 kHz. Your image shows s = 7. I don't use the HP4194 impedance analyzer to measure DC resistance. A 4-wire ohmmeter is used for DC resistance which is more accurate. The HP4194 is used to measure characteristics in and around my operating frequency band. – qrk Sep 20 '22 at 18:20
  • Uninsulated strands *will* reduce eddy currents -- though not by much, ca. 10-20% is my understanding. No substitute for litz, but good to know at least. – Tim Williams Sep 20 '22 at 19:13
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    Blast you @TimWilliams! Your comment led me down a rabbit hole. ["Stranded Wire With Uninsulated Strands as a Low-Cost Alternative to Litz Wire”](http://inductor.thayerschool.org/papers/stranded.pdf) by Tang & Sullivan is an interesting read on the subject of using uninsulated strands. – qrk Sep 20 '22 at 21:16
  • @qrk Thanks, I hadn't seen that. Sounds like it can offer quite a bit more than I thought; though for the suboptimal case (whatever stranded hookup wire is on hand), the offhand figure might still happen. – Tim Williams Sep 20 '22 at 22:57
  • A disadvantage of winding with stranded wire is the thickness of insulation compared to enamel magnet wire. Perhaps a sort of DIY faux Litz wire would be 7 strands of magnet wire twisted together. But that might be difficult to make unless the total length of wire in a winding is relatively short. I also wonder how effective it would be to use a bifilar or trifilar or "n-filar" windings? https://qrp-labs.com/ultimate3/u3info/u3sbifilar.html – PStechPaul Sep 21 '22 at 05:53
  • Hi @qrk, COukd you please sue an example how to use these factor to calculate the Rdc in real lizt wire? a little confused about how to get the lw and s. – Magnetic778 Sep 21 '22 at 14:58
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    @PStechPaul multi-filar wire facilitates good coupling, but you can use that as faux Litz. Bunched conductor is all you need to reduce proximity effect losses. I've wound my own 3 meter length bunched wires in a pinch. Anchor on end of the strands to a fixed object and use a drill to twist the wires. While the wire is taut, run pinched fingers along the length to set the twists. When releasing the wire from the drill, keep the wire taut, release wire from drill chuck keeping the wire taut, and toss the free end of the wire bundle towards the anchor (keeps wire from kinking). – qrk Sep 21 '22 at 20:21
  • @Magnetic778 I added a section at the end of my post called "Real Life Calculations". – qrk Sep 21 '22 at 21:42
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    @Magnetic778 The \$R_{DC}\$ formula is something you should be able to derive, pretty much. It's as basic as it gets. It's a good test for whether you understand this stuff. – Kuba hasn't forgotten Monica Sep 21 '22 at 22:03
  • @qrk, Thanks, it is very clear to me! – Magnetic778 Sep 21 '22 at 22:24