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I can't understand where the math supports the concept of 5G frequencies interfering with aircraft altimeters. Can anyone point out the holes in my logic or educate me?

  1. Knowns:

    • Aircraft altimeter frequency range: 4.2 - 4.4 GHz enter image description here
    • Closest 5G frequency range: 3.98 GHz -- While the FCC Online Table of Frequency Allocations allocates up to 4.2 GHz, licenses haven't been granted above 3.98 GHz (Source: https://www.fcc.gov/auction/107/factsheet)
    • Upper bound on maximum airplane speed: 343 m/s (speed of sound)
  2. Unknown: What speed could produce the doppler shift required to cause 5G signals to bleed into the altimeter band?

  3. Approach: Since airplanes move way slower than the speed of light, we can start with the approximation

Change in frequency $$\Delta f = \frac{\Delta v}{c}f_0$$

and solve for the delta_v required to shift from 3.98 (= f_0) -> 4.2 GHz. This gives us 0.22 GHz for delta_f and delta_v = 16,582,915 m/s. Clearly not achievable by a passenger airplane.

So what am I doing wrong? Even if you wanted to add a factor of 2 to cover the worst case of a handheld 5G handset on another airplane flying right towards you, I can't see how you could possibly get enough Doppler shift to cause interference.

Acknowledge I've extrapolated away center frequencies and rolloff, but that stuff just isn't as important when you're dealing with 100s of MHz of separation.

1337_Pawn
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    I'm not able to write a full answer on mobile, but https://www.rtca.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SC-239-5G-Interference-Assessment-Report_274-20-PMC-2073_accepted_changes.pdf may have the info you're looking for. Doppler isn't the issue. Receiver overload is a big part of it at quick skim, which wide pre-LNA filters may not be able to handle when designed for altimeter precision – nanofarad Feb 05 '22 at 00:06
  • @nanofarad I took a quick look at your linked document. You should be able to make a nice answer just with text from the executive summary. – GrapefruitIsAwesome Feb 05 '22 at 00:43
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    This came up recently and reading the previous discussion may be helpful to you. https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/604880/5g-and-aircraft – user57037 Feb 05 '22 at 04:15
  • Consider t = 1/F as well as height = c * t/2. (t/2 because of round trip). How accurately do you want to know your height at touchdown? "Radar altimeters are inherently wideband systems" and necessarily so. –  Feb 05 '22 at 17:25

1 Answers1

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This 21 page document contains the following slide:

https://www.rtca.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Slides-5G-Interference-Risk-to-Radar-Altimeters.pdf

enter image description here

Radar altimeters are inherently wideband systems and currently have no requirements for front-end rejection of the high power 5G spectrum. Also 5G could generate spurious emissions in the radar altimeter spectrum.

This video uses the same slide and describes the "crux" of the potential interference concerns:

https://youtu.be/OpYhjK2MDqM?t=1434

This short video is the non-technical illustration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8XRFmdAqeM

SystemTheory
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    While the videos linked here may well contain the answer to the question, this does not meet [the minimum standards for an answer on a Stack Exchange site](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-answer). Please [edit] your answer to [quote or summarize the information from behind the links](//meta.stackexchange.com/q/8259), providing the link merely for reference and [attribution](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/help/referencing). – Cody Gray - on strike Feb 05 '22 at 09:31
  • The final paragraph should also be cited/attributed to the original source/author. – nobody Feb 05 '22 at 15:19