8

A few years ago, I modified a mosquito zapper for fun, removing the original transformer and making the zapper more 'interesting'. I just found it again and I had an old question I wanted answered:

Here is the mod:

enter image description here

Here is a video of it in action:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/Gj7bs.jpg

What I do not understand is the arcing pattern:

The voltage is high enough to have the zapper arc by itself without having a mosquito closing the gap, but why isn't the arcing happening at the place where the two parts of the frame would be the closest to each other?

The arc is jumping from one place to another in what seems like a random pattern.

Thomas
  • 1,049
  • 1
  • 8
  • 15
  • Unless the charged surface is perfectly symmetrical the field around it will not be uniform. Areas of higher field are more likely to start arcs, so it's a combination of distance and shape that determines where you get arcs. – user1850479 Oct 02 '21 at 16:28
  • So you added a stun-gun energiser to a mosquito racket? why? – Jasen Слава Україні Oct 02 '21 at 19:11
  • @jasen I had the parts and I noticed it would fit so it was a fun way to waste time and make a fun video :) in practice it doesn’t make a good mosquito zapper but it looks interesting – Thomas Oct 03 '21 at 14:14

3 Answers3

5

What I do not understand is the arcing pattern.... but why isn't the arcing happening at the place where the two parts of the frame would be the closest to each other?

It boils down to Paschen's law - basically, for some voltage levels at some particular ranges of gas pressure and type, the voltage may prefer to take an elongated route when making a spark: -

enter image description here

If you look at the graph for nitrogen (\$N_2\$) above you will see that a voltage of (say) 1,000 volts will have two distances for breakdown (about 5 mm and 100 mm) at a pressure of 1 torr or 1 mm of Mercury. These limits cover the distance range at which breakdown may occur.

You have also to consider that once the zapper has discharged, there will be a ramping voltage building up over a few tens or hundreds of milliseconds that might discharge at about 500 volts at a distance of 10 mm or might get all the way to around 2,000 volts and take a discharge path that is a bit less than 5 mm. Statistics are also involved i.e. there is a probability involved in an arc starting (see Impact ionization section in the linked wiki page for Paschen's law).

Also, if you have a fixed spark gap you can see several different paths taken by the arc here at wiki spark gap: -

enter image description here

Quote from that page: -

When a spark gap consists of only two electrodes separated by gas, the transition between the non-conducting and conducting states is governed by Paschen's law. At typical pressure and electrode distance combinations, Paschen's law says that Townsend discharge will fill the gap between the electrodes with conductive plasma whenever the ratio of the electric field strength to the pressure exceeds a constant value determined by the composition of the gas.

You should also look up "Jacob's Ladder" on this section of spark gap. it shows how a spark can seemingly climb up to electrodes that have a slight angle between them: -

enter image description here

It's all down to Paschen's Law.

Andy aka
  • 434,556
  • 28
  • 351
  • 777
  • So perturbations in atmospheric pressure? – DKNguyen Oct 02 '21 at 17:24
  • Maybe, maybe not, it depends on what you are asking. – Andy aka Oct 02 '21 at 17:41
  • 1
    huh? "Torr cm" is not a measure of distance – Jasen Слава Україні Oct 02 '21 at 18:59
  • @jasen if pressure is constant it can be regarded as electrode distance as per [this slightly better described picture](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew-Somorjai/publication/276279085/figure/fig2/AS:294483469062146@1447221738253/Paschen-Curve-for-various-gases-4.png) - 1 atmosphere is 760 torr as in mm of mercury – Andy aka Oct 02 '21 at 19:25
  • so "5mm and 100mm" is wrong? 0.007 and 0.14mm being closer to the mark? – Jasen Слава Україні Oct 02 '21 at 19:52
  • At one atmosphere yes but it’s all relative. – Andy aka Oct 02 '21 at 19:56
  • excellent explanation, who knew how interesting arcing was. thanks @Andyaka – danmcb Oct 04 '21 at 11:47
  • @jasen no it's a measure of both pressure and distance. – danmcb Oct 04 '21 at 11:48
  • from the wikipedia article @Andyaka cites: "For example, in air, at a pressure of one atmosphere, the distance for minimal breakdown voltage is about 7.5 μm. The voltage required to arc this distance is 327 V, which is insufficient to ignite the arcs for gaps that are either wider or narrower. " SO - it should in fact be impossible to induce an arc in air at a voltage of less than 327V? hmmmm ... – danmcb Oct 04 '21 at 11:54
  • The wonders of physics @danmcb – Andy aka Oct 04 '21 at 11:58
  • @Andyaka says: "If you look at the graph for nitrogen (N2) above you will see that a voltage of (say) 1,000 volts will have two preferred distances for breakdown (about 5 mm and 100 mm) at a pressure of 1 torr or 1 mm of Mercury." --- hmmm. When I read the article I am not convinced. If I understand correctly, the graph expresses the *minimum* voltage required to get an arc for a given pressure/distance product. At 1kV you should arc if minimum voltage is <1kV. The explanation of the mechanism bears this out. The OP's device has a gap always >> 7um so I don't see that this explanation holds. – danmcb Oct 04 '21 at 12:35
  • ... I'm mixing things a bit, 7um is for the wikipedia graph. Andy's graph suggests that you should get arcing in nitrogen at about 10mm for 200V ... I wonder what the physical gap is on the OP's device. – danmcb Oct 04 '21 at 12:46
  • @danmcb I'm not following your comment train and so maybe you should raise a new question about the validity of the wiki graph. This isn't the place to have a long string of comments that are hard to follow. – Andy aka Oct 04 '21 at 12:49
  • @Andyaka it's not about the validity of the graph, it's about your interpretation of it. While I mixed units a bit, the basic issue is about "preferred" versus "minimum". If I would move this into a separate question, it wouldn't make sense because it is about your answer, not the wikipedia graph. And I don't think it can be said any more clearly than I said it above. – danmcb Oct 04 '21 at 13:24
  • @danmcb sorry for not following your reasoning. Maybe you can feed me it differently? – Andy aka Oct 04 '21 at 13:37
  • @Andyaka sure but let's do it on chat and then update here. – danmcb Oct 04 '21 at 13:39
  • Let us [continue this discussion in chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/130223/discussion-between-danmcb-and-andy-aka). – danmcb Oct 04 '21 at 13:39
  • well @Andyaka and I had a conversation about this which anyone can join. my observations on this answer - (1) yes strictly it is governed by Paschen but the minima and U shaped part of the curve has no influence on the problem at normal atmospheric pressure and room temperature, because (2) the statement "once the zapper has discharged, there will be a ... voltage ... that might discharge at about 500 volts at a distance of 10 mm or ... 2,000 volts and take a discharge path that is a bit less than 5 mm" is factually incorrect at 1 atmos, and the OP is not working in a near-vacuum, so ... – danmcb Oct 15 '21 at 11:52
  • ... really the answer, though elegant and informative, is really not answering the OP's question to any useful degree. The OP is working at room temperature and pressure and under those conditions the relation between distance and voltage is entirely monotonic. In addition, even at a distance of 1mm, we are talking about voltages in the region of about 20kV, if you do the math. For more follow the conversation, where I did point this out quite extensively. – danmcb Oct 15 '21 at 11:55
  • @danmcb you may be right. I'm sorry, I don't get notifications from the chatroom unless you use the "reply to" feature - then it embeds some code into the message you right and I get notified. – Andy aka Oct 15 '21 at 12:57
  • @Andyaka no problem. Could you at least correct your answer to give reasonable numbers for the conditions the OP is working at? – danmcb Oct 15 '21 at 13:33
  • @danmcb yes I'll try but I've been away for this for a while and physics isn't my strongest skill so, what are the numbers you recommend? – Andy aka Oct 15 '21 at 15:21
  • @Andyaka I explained a better interpretation of the graph that you posted, for normal atmospheric pressure, at quite some length, in our discussion, and I also sanity checked it against real world numbers where it was possible to do so. Please refer to that info. – danmcb Oct 18 '21 at 08:08
  • - in fact it's not hard at all. You just have to use the correct pressure of 760 Torr and then it's trivial. In fact @Jasen pointed it this out correctly ages ago. – danmcb Oct 18 '21 at 08:24
3

I'd guess once the first arc discharge occurs, it releases a pressure wave (that's the 'pop' you hear) and causes the air density to vary in a concentric ripple pattern spreading outward from that arc.

Meanwhile, the circuitry, having been discharged, has to build up to a sufficient voltage again. This takes time.

The random pattern is the result of the "beating" between the air density spatial ripple pattern and the temporal discharge interval.

To experiment with this, modify your circuit to slow down the recharging and see how the pattern is affected.

Honestly, this is a wild guess to what's an interesting question.

Mark Leavitt
  • 5,073
  • 1
  • 8
  • 15
1

So you're feeding the mesh plates for the mosquito racket from a stun-gun energizer that is itself spark triggered.

Ihe rising edge of each pulse will be very steep and will rapidly charge the capacitor plates formed by the two grids. after that you get echoes of the pulse reflected from the edges of the grid.

The pulses from the stun gun energizer are themselves made using a spark gap and that spark gap will be changed by each pulse, so each pulse will be different.

So the echoes from the edges of the plates will be different each time, thus the sufficient voltage peak can appear in a different place each time.

winny
  • 13,064
  • 6
  • 46
  • 63