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I got this project a month ago and I've been working on it but I just can't seem to figure this out and my professor won't help us. The project is to build a device to correct the patient's walk -in a crude way. Instead of actually "fixing it" I need to turn on 1 or 2 LEDs to show which out of 8 sensors are most pressured. I can only use comparators and op-amps to turn on the LEDs. It's given that only 1 LED can be turned on(the sensor with most force) or if 2 sensors are close in voltages (+/- 10% V) then both of those sensors LEDs would turn on.

Basically I would have 8 sensors on the foot that would measure the pressure and convert it to voltage (linear) which I would use to determine which one is the most pressured one. Now this doesn't have to be a real example so I don't need to worry about which specific component I'm going to use, I need more of a general idea.

So far I've been able to convert force to voltage using two PNP transistor and getting a constant current source on each of the sensors and I've created a circuit to ,"find" the highest voltage from all eight sensors and only output it, using op-amp and some diodes.

Only problem I have is how to figure out which LED to turn on using comparators and a bit of op-amps and how to add that +/- 10% comparison between all the voltages. When I asked my professor only thing he said, "It is not an interesting situation when the voltages are equal, but when they are sufficiently different, which can be interpreted as improper reliance."

Project : "Based on pressure differences turn on one LED of eight, which shows the approximate position of the foot, that is, which is the most loaded sensor. If the load on the two sensors is equal (in limits +/- 10%), two LEDs should be switched on. Make a signal to turn on the LEDs using differential amplifiers and comparators that compare the difference of two voltages with zero, and if the difference is less than zero, turns on one, and if it is greater than zero, turns on the other LED."

Constant current source Constant current source Finding the highest voltage Finding the highest voltage Some idea I had about the LED logic using diff op-amp and a comparator Some idea I had about the LED logic using diff op-amp and a comparator

Chris
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  • Can you post your circuit and explain how you think it should work? – Transistor Sep 05 '21 at 21:49
  • Your professor is providing you with a ***huge hint***! *"It is not an interesting situation when the voltages are equal, but when they are sufficiently different, which can be interpreted as improper reliance."* Do you not see where that is directing you??? It's big-time. He's practically telling you what to do!! If you understood the clue, you'd be slapping yourself in the face! The problem already says similar things, anyway. I'll add another clue. Think about *quadrature* (if that is familiar to you) or else think geometrically away from *square thinking* and towards *diamond thinking*? – jonk Sep 05 '21 at 22:36
  • Also, were you given a physical arrangement of the sensors to work with? If so, you should disclose it. – jonk Sep 05 '21 at 22:43
  • @Transistor Ah yes, here it is https://imgur.com/a/kkxPhjN. I created a constant current going through the sensor and giving me linear voltage compared to force. Then I would find the highest voltage out of 8 and forward it to diff op-amp as Vref and connect voltage from the sensors, get a Vsens - Vref and then output of that would go to a comparator and compare that voltage diff to 0 and based on the sign I would turn on LED.Problem I have is that doing that I have always 4 LEDs turned ON. Here is my idea for that https://imgur.com/a/hsB1W5V – Chris Sep 05 '21 at 23:25
  • @jonk Well sort of "The sensors are resistant, linear and identical, resistance 18 kΩ when unloaded and with a positive slope of 2 kΩ / kg load.". That's all we have but I just ran a constant current through the sensor and got linear voltage compared to force applied. – Chris Sep 05 '21 at 23:28
  • @Chris So you are completely free in terms of their placement? (And I'd love to see a picture of how you expect these to be associated with a "foot." Are these in shoes? Outside, on the edges of shoes? Or what, exactly? But the main question I have right now is if you are completely free to choose placements? (I don't know anything about the sensors, how big they are, how much impact they can take, are they brittle in any way, etc., etc.... None of which matters until it does, I suppose.) – jonk Sep 05 '21 at 23:30
  • @jonk Yes, they would be placed inside of the shoes 1 on the top, 1 on the heel, outer left, outer right and middle (right, top, bottom and left), but that still doesn't matter. Professor said we shouldn't focus on them that much since we would really build this it just on paper. We could tweak the circuit for different sensors if we wanted to but these are some basic linear "conceptual" sensors". It should look something like this( do mind that it's not the real size of the sensor) https://imgur.com/a/fe9XPJk – Chris Sep 05 '21 at 23:41
  • @Chris That picture is a huge improvement and a lot more detailed than I was imagining. Is there a reason why it's not in your question? Do you need help adding it? Also, are you supposed to do something for each foot? I thought I read your writing to suggest that this is about comparing one foot vs the other. But this is a lot of sensors for one foot in that case, unless this is for "serious business" here. – jonk Sep 06 '21 at 00:08
  • @Chris New schematics noted. So, it seems that all you want to do is to sum up all the sensors on one side, sum up all the sensors on the other side, then put them through a difference amplifier. However, if so, I'd also include a calibration step (no pun) that would have the wearer put all their weight on one side, then all their weight on the other side (consistent with their ability), so that the variation in the sensor magnitudes can be calibrated out. Perhaps have them do this three times. I'd explore the use of eigen values/vectors for this but there are many other useful methods, too. – jonk Sep 06 '21 at 00:28
  • @jonk I just add all of them to the post. Yeah technically I would have 16 sensors (8x2) but the circuit would be the same so I just need to make it work for 1 foot. No, as I said below this is FAR away from anything serious or realistic. – Chris Sep 06 '21 at 00:29
  • @Chris I have [some thoughts on your current source design](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/481317/38098) that you may want to compare with your own thinking. Don't know if it is useful to you. But it might be worth a moment. As far as the eight sensors go, are you summing those into a single node? – jonk Sep 06 '21 at 00:32
  • @jonk My idea was to find the highest voltage the forward it to 8 differential op-amps with voltages from sensors which would give me difference between all the sensors and the reference voltage ( highest voltage), and then I would send that difference of voltages to window comparator that would have window of High (Vref) and Low (Vref - Vref * 0.1). – Chris Sep 06 '21 at 00:33
  • @Chris Why not sum them? It doesn't seem right to me that you'd "find the largest." What's the thinking behind that approach? – jonk Sep 06 '21 at 00:34
  • @jonk I...don't know. In the project it said find the most pressured sensor so my brain jumped to pressure = voltage so most pressured = "most voltage". I didn't even think about summing them up. – Chris Sep 06 '21 at 00:39
  • @Chris Assuming that these sensors are linear with weight applied, it would seem better to sum them. Different feet have very different structures to them and how load is placed is very different, one to another. Well, at least, give it a thought now. I'd tend to imagine summing is better, before taking a difference, than taking the larger. It's also easier to achieve, I think. Your approach "picks one." The summing is effectively an integral/average and that's less noisy and I think generally closer to what you want, anyway, separate from noise considerations. – jonk Sep 06 '21 at 00:44
  • @jonk I'm guessing that I would use Non-inverting Summing Amplifier for that so I have to see how it works when all the outputs are ON since I didn't really use it that much last semester. Still, I need to figure out how to turn on the correct LED. – Chris Sep 06 '21 at 00:54

2 Answers2

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This could be a dot matrix display to show the pressures by intensity of each foot like a 7 segment display but intensity modulated. Using a comparator with 10% hysteresis is what the Prof asked for. Interesting but how useful as the gain of each sensor needs to be normalized or the area needs to be normalized for equal weight distribution on the pressure sensors. Each sensor will have different peaks and durations. Seems primitive to me.

This is no different than a "color organ" to detect the amplitude of different frequencies in music.

You know that F=mg and the foot reacts with an equal and opposite force, F, but thin film sensors measure pressure, P by force over area, P=F/A. The area will be distributed by the substrate but can made small enough in critical zones only capture a fraction of the total forced since it does not capture the total area equally unless you design awkward rigid plates to move independently bonded to each pressure sensor. Motion artifact from twisting would create additional noise that must be integrated for each micro-motion of foot steps. Calibration might reduce the total imbalance error to 10%. Alternatively 8 independent high pressure spots can sample the weight in those zones if the person has a normal gate. YET THIS MIGHT ONLY BE USEFUL IF THE PERSON HAS AN UNHEALTHY GATE. Pronated ankles and pigeon toes not-withstanding there may be many sources of error from footwear, size, weight, sole materials that are physio measurement issues. Or perhaps due to poor ergonomics and road surface, that increases the error by missing the optimal high pressure points supported by the foots bones and muscle structure.

Given the above is a mechanical issue, it still is important for the electrical designer to identify the optimum method of sensors. and get help where needed.

Now the pressure and duration is also a key issue and the acuity of being able to decode sequencing LEDs for 8 Zones in real-time may be interesting but not clinically useful to an Orthopoedic Doctor as measuring the deviation to expected sequences of pressure to a normal walking cadence.

That being researched or experimentally determined, the circuit must include both Proportional, integral and Derivative and possible jerk measurements (Rate of change of a) to determine the averaged or mean weighted sum of all the conditioned signals in real-time to make a signal that differentiates between the stored left foot and stored right foot values to be compared afterwards as a multiplexed sequence of Analog values in S&H or ADC stored values. The duty cycle of pressure on and null depends on the shoe, and walking speed. But the sequence of pressures needs to be compared analytically. Unequally duty cycles indicates a limp perhaps caused by unequally leg lengths or injury and pronation or lateral movement of angles shown by skewed tread wear.

Thus the PRof's concept seems primitive to me but doable as you suggested but difficult to analyze by flashing LEDs. It would be more useful to scope an 8 sensor extremity in analog mode as a 8 stage sequence machine with lots of statistics used by Orthopedic Doctors for peaks, covariance and RMS averages forward or rear-heel and lateral bias, cadence and acceleration or jerks due to pain avoidance.

Tony Stewart EE75
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  • You are absolutely right about everything but this is an 2nd year undergraduate project from subject called Electronic Measurements, where we spent this semester learning about digital electronics and digital logic. So I guess this whole thing is highly theoretical. I can only use these sensors which are primitive I guess. There are a lot of things what realistically don't make sense and I spent over a month overthinking about that. In the end they are just using this project to teach us how to use op-amps and create something of our own. It's not a real project. I won't have to build it. – Chris Sep 05 '21 at 23:59
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    You can simulate it on Falstad's site easily with a ring counter with different resistors to control the LED intensity with smoothing caps, but always learn to define the input and output specs and functions in a list of expectations and assumptions or specs. Before design. – Tony Stewart EE75 Sep 06 '21 at 00:33
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    For something completely different https://tinyurl.com/yh4x92f3 – Tony Stewart EE75 Sep 06 '21 at 00:37
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    Then using the bipolar signals to drive LEDs https://tinyurl.com/yhw27u7j – Tony Stewart EE75 Sep 06 '21 at 00:46
  • I will have to look into this since it doesn't make any sense to me right since because I have no experience dealing with this or understanding somewhat complex circuits at first look but still thanks. – Chris Sep 06 '21 at 00:56
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Only problem I have is how to figure out which LED to turn on using comparators and a bit of op-amps and how to add that +/- 10% comparison between all the voltages.

This is highest and "within 10%" finding circuitry.

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

jay
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