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We’re working on a product that makes use of USB HS, and are having some connection and consistency issues.

Originally, our product was USB FS-based and we had no connectivity issues; with this second iteration the design was adjusted to use USB HS with a new MCU and the same cable. The ergonomics of the cable in particular are important to our application, rendering typical USB cables with more robust shielding unsuitable.

The cable’s specs:

  • A 2-meter long run of Tensility 4-strand cable (not twisted-pair, but has a lay length of around 3.5cm)
  • Gold-plated USB connectors and a 4-pin Molex Picolock (gold-plated on both male and female ends) on the device side.
  • Inductance of the cable is 1.2uH, capacitance is 97pF, resistance is 0.92 ohm, and impedance is ~111 ohms (which we believe to be relatively close to the USB spec of 90 ohms).

On some systems, the USB HS connection will work consistently and flawlessly each time. On others, it will be port-dependent with success rates ranging anywhere from 30-80%.

Issues seem to occur in decreasing frequency with cable lengths around 2m to 1.6m, and are mostly resolved at around 1.5m. Additionally, any of the following seem to improve our device’s performance:

  • Shielding the cable in aluminum foil
  • Twisting the cable (~10-20 turns in the 2 meter length) axially
  • Creating a twisted pair out of D+/D- on a fully stripped cable (with no shielding)

We have access to some rudimentary test equipment, namely an oscilloscope (Siglent 1104XE), multimeter, LCR meter (DE-5000), and a digital logic analyzer if there are any relevant measurements that are missing.

We have many cables ready to go -- enough for the entire foreseeable run of the product -- but production of the boards is done iteratively in smaller batches with no large batches yet produced. With that in mind: are there any board or cable- related mitigations that are worth investigating in our case?

JRE
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    scattering parameters with group delay changing with flexing in HS needs specific test equipment like a network or eye pattern analyzer – Tony Stewart EE75 Apr 22 '21 at 03:52
  • We're (painfully) aware of that, but we're on a hobby level with hobby-level gear; trying some potential workarounds or mitigations is a lot more in our budget, but anything that could help us approximate or better understand our issues would be interesting to know more about. – snoopledorf Apr 22 '21 at 04:06
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    Wrong cabĺe, bad PCB layout, incorrect impedance matching to MCU or problems with MCU supply, clocks or software would do that. Post schematics, PCB layout and source code for analysis, otherwise I will start by just saying that the cable is unsuitable for USB HS. – Justme Apr 22 '21 at 04:22
  • Have you tried 2 SMT CM Chokes? – Tony Stewart EE75 Apr 22 '21 at 12:34
  • https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/common-mode-chokes/839?s=N4IgjCBcoEwdIDGUBmBDANgZwKYBoQB7KAbRABYAGGAdnIgF0CAHAFyhAGVWAnASwB2AcxABfAmACcADiihkkdNnxFSIGJQDMYAGw0QTEGw7d%2BwsRJmS5SVJlwFikMpQMt2kLr0Ejx6mNKuCApKDqrOIJKUAAQA8gAWALZY0QAC0WCUMQCyABIAXm5GHiAAwoQArswYOAAmAKoCfKyxKNk4aFgVPDhioqJAA – Tony Stewart EE75 Apr 22 '21 at 12:41
  • USB docouments specify certain cable construction for a reason. Get a normal USB cable. – Ale..chenski Apr 24 '21 at 00:00
  • @TonyStewartEE75, common-mode chokes will make the things only worse. Don't do this. – Ale..chenski Apr 24 '21 at 00:01
  • @Ale..chenski you have more USB experience than I , but some of these are made for USB2 and some are used on my ASUS HDMI at faster rates https://www.digikey.ca/htmldatasheets/production/1860944/0/0/1/mcz-series-brief.html Have U not found any to help immunity and not deteriorate eye pattern? – Tony Stewart EE75 Apr 24 '21 at 01:55
  • @TonyStewartEE75, it is physically impossible to make a CMC that holds constant differential impedance, as USB transmission line needs. See this "dissertation" for more details, https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/557210/117785 – Ale..chenski Apr 24 '21 at 18:57
  • TY @Ale..chenski. I was expecting Ldm to be <1 to 3% of Lcm or 30 to 40dB down , but I understand your reasoning. Mine was based on SNR & phase distortion https://www.mouser.com/new/coilcraft/coilcraft-0603-choke/ – Tony Stewart EE75 Apr 24 '21 at 20:42

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