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I just performed an AC Simulation on QUCS and was asked to find values of gain and phase at low freq. and high freq and at the -3dB frequency point with the roll-off slope. The circuit is an RC circuit as shown below (image was taken from QUCS itself) RC circuit with resistance of 1k and capacitance of 10p

My questions are:

  • When I'm meant to mark low freq. and high freq., do I just mark 1e03 and 1e09? (plots shown below)
  • What point is the -3dB freq?
  • How do I get the roll-off slope - do I just calculate the gradient at the -3dB point or do I do something else?

TIA

Two separate plots of Gain and Phase against Frequency

gann
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    Very often it is easier (and more exact) to find the 3dB frequency using the phase response. For any 1st-order system this frequency can be found where the phase shift is -45 deg. – LvW Jan 26 '21 at 10:57
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    -3dB is approx 20x log (50% power or 70.7% voltage across a resistive load) and is below the asymptotic corner frequency point on a log-log scale relative to a normalized 100% – Tony Stewart EE75 Jan 26 '21 at 11:50

2 Answers2

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I just performed an AC Simulation on QUCS and was asked to find values of gain and phase at low freq. and high freq and at the -3dB frequency point with the roll-off slope.

I think you can see that at DC the gain is unity and the phase angle is 0 °.

At high frequency, it's really asking you what the gain is at infinite frequency and that has to be zero but, the phase is clearly -90 °.

When I'm meant to mark low freq. and high freq., do I just mark 1e03 and 1e09?

You shouldn't limit yourself to what the bode plot phase response is limited to. In other words, think outside the box a little.

What point is the -3dB freq?

By definition, the -3dB frequency is when the output power is half the input power.

In decibels that's \$10\log_{10}(0.5)\$ = -3.0103 dB or "-3 dB" for shorthand.

And, half power is when the output voltage has dropped to 0.707107 compared to the input voltage. This is because \$\color{red}{20}\log_{10}(0.707107)\$ = -3.0103 dB.

Note I made the "20" in red to signify the difference when calculating voltage decibels.

And, the "-3 dB" point happens when R = \$X_C\$. Hence: -

$$R = \dfrac{1}{2\pi f C} \hspace{1cm}\text{or}\hspace{1cm} f = \dfrac{1}{2\pi R C}$$

How do I get the roll-off slope - do I just calculate the gradient at the -3dB point or do I do something else?

The roll-off slope is 20 dB/decade for a single order low pass filter. What does this mean you might ask? It basically means that at a frequency well above the -3 dB point, if frequency rises by (say) ten times, the output amplitude drops by 10 times. Dropping by ten times is a reduction of 20 dB hence, the slope is 20 dB per decade.

You could also say that if the frequency doubles then the amplitude halves and this would imply 6.0205 dB per octave (or 6 dB per octave for shorthand). In other words, we say that this is approximately true: -

6 dB/octave = 20 dB/decade.

enter image description here

The frequency of 1.5915 MHz comes from the R and C used in the question and the formula higher up in this answer.

Andy aka
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What you have designed is a low pass filter .The point of -3 dB is where the output voltage is 0.7 × input voltage and can be found using this:

$$ f_c = \frac 1 {2\pi*RC}$$

  • Sorry for asking, but where does the 0.7 derive from? – gann Jan 26 '21 at 10:04
  • from a logarithmic expression of db – The Force Awakens Jan 26 '21 at 10:07
  • While the bel is not in the SI system the same conventions are employed. 'B' for bel. SI units named after a person have their symbols capitalised and are lowercase when spelled out. – Transistor Jan 26 '21 at 10:10
  • C'mon, it's not \$\sqrt{RC}\$. It would be if it were an LC low pass filter i.e. it would be \$\sqrt{LC}\$ but, it isn't! – Andy aka Jan 26 '21 at 10:14
  • @TheForceAwakens People are only notified if you @ them or if it's their own question or answer. – K H Jan 26 '21 at 10:49
  • @Andyaka yes you are right I have correct it maybe remove the downvote please? – The Force Awakens Jan 26 '21 at 11:20
  • @TheForceAwakens sorry, this is a very poor answer irrespective of the basic error you originally made in the formula. For instance "0.7" is really undermining what happens here and not giving any clue as to what it is. Even the OP asked about it and you responded very obliquely. Also you haven't fully answered what the op was asking. If our roles were reversed I'd be deleting what I'd put and moving on to another question. – Andy aka Jan 26 '21 at 11:23
  • @Andyaka Then you leave me no choice but not to upvote your question.... – The Force Awakens Jan 26 '21 at 11:24